Petra vids

[JMBJR72]

I just asked Bob what is the chance of getting Backstage Pass released to DVD and he there a slim to none chance because Word want to much for the licence

[gman]

well, my gut reaction is that's what you get when you sell the Christian Music Industry to mainstream music companies. Maybe it's more complex than that. I'd like to think that if Word were still wholely a Christian company, they would givethe license to Bob, or at least sell it to him at a reasonable that he could afford. In the big picture, they stand to profit much from a DVD. Their time and money is better spent on other projects. However, Bob probably wouldn't mind the sales he could get from a DVD.

[petrabandca]

I just don't understand why a company like Word is hanging onto these rights and putting such a high price on them. You would think that they would want to talk with Bob on creating a limited release of these items so that everyone profits from it in some way or another.

All Word would have to do is provide the pressing and I'm sure that sales would do fine on Petramerch and in other outlets that have been lending a hand at promoting the Farewell project, VE and now the Grafting. There is a market out there, but Word is too busy making mistakes and they wonder why people copy and download!?!

Any inside info Brent? Is Word and all the other labels hanging onto these items for their own personal enjoyment. Leave it to the ones who don't have a musical bone in their body to make decisions. Classic!

Maybe this is a blessing in disguise, one day soon these labels may be no longer and they will practically be giving these rights away to make some money before it's all over. Just a thought.

James

[brent]

well, my gut reaction is that's what you get when you sell the Christian Music Industry to mainstream music companies. Maybe it's more complex than that. I'd like to think that if Word were still wholely a Christian company, they would givethe license to Bob, or at least sell it to him at a reasonable that he could afford. In the big picture, they stand to profit much from a DVD. Their time and money is better spent on other projects. However, Bob probably wouldn't mind the sales he could get from a DVD.

No, it has nothing to do with being Christian or not. No, they do not stand to profit much if anything. The amount of time that it would take to make a copy of the masters, do the legals, etc...it would be more than Bob or the label would be able to make.

The deals are deals across the board. It has to do with the contracts signed by Bob. When you sign a label deal, you basically give up your rights to your own music. You basically have to pay to release your own material.

The only way that a label will "Lease" masters is if they have no plans to use them themselves. Sometimes they will refuse to lease them, because it is counterproductive to them in some other area.

The costs of making a DVD are about double what they are for CDs by the time everyone is paid, yet they must sell for the same price as CDs, and include bonus footage to be considered a good deal.

The old business model sucks. The new one isn't much better. The rats want a 360 deal. Some money from every revenue source (concerts, merch, videos, CDs, appearances, etc, etc). I mean this in the most Christian way. They can kiss our collective rears. That sucks, and it is criminal!

Power to the indies. Death to the RIAA!

[brent]

but CITAS dvd came out when it was long lost and against the odds. again correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought CITAS was a test to see if others might follow.

How did sales of the CITAS DVD do?

CITAS was owned by EMI. The audio masters exist. The video masters were the ones lost. That video was made from a near virgin copy of the final product, not masters.

That was a different deal. Remember, EMI did not re-release CITAS. Bob did. That means he had to pay to license, etc.

The labels that own the "green tree" of Petra have what sells out there. Anything else in their mind is obscure and non-essential. There are only a small percentage of people (us) compared to the buying public at large that care about this stuff enough to buy it. That is why someone like Bob has to do it on a smaller scale. Which I am glad that he does, because (hopefully) more money goes into his pocket.

[petrabandca]

So is a limited press completely out of the question? Do they not do market research on this stuff or have they already and just know that it's not worth, but rather work hanging onto something just to collect dust!?!

Come on lottery...give me some Petra rights

James

[brent]

So is a limited press completely out of the question? Do they not do market research on this stuff or have they already and just know that it's not worth, but rather work hanging onto something just to collect dust!?!

Come on lottery...give me some Petra rights

James

They know already. Look, if a retired band had to retire because of poor industry acceptance and poor sales, then what incentive is there to re-release videos of the poorly selling audio? It ain't gonna happen. Not when the labels like EMI and Sony are cutting back, trimming releases, etc. There is no way unless Bob or someone with some jack does it on their own.

Re: dusty product. It is cheaper to hold it than to sell three hundred. That is not worth a label's time and effort. However, that might be worth the time for an indie with a backer in it for ministry's sake.

[p-freak]

It still doesn't make sense to me. If it would cost Word money to release a DVD, why not earn money by licensing the masters to Bob and let him do all the work? Word is never gonna re-release these things, so it's all just gathering dust. So it's not for their own sake that they're keeping the masters. And if Bob is not willing / able to pay what they're asking, it won't hurt them to drop the price. How much money are we talking about anyway? I have no idea how much such a license would cost.

[petrabandca]

I understand Brent what you're saying and it's making more sense now that you've explained it a little.

Like p-freak is asking...how much would a license cost?
James

[brent]

There is no straight and easy answer. It's percentages. It depends on how many people receive royalties (band, engineers, producers, etc) + the leasing fees + master copy fees (usually a flat fee to cover studio, engineer and media expenses). This is the deal. Whoever leases and releases could be into it for as much as it would cost to sell, not leaving much room for profit, possibly pricing it higher than current charting releases.

You have to tell them up front how many you will produce, and that is what you pay on UP FRONT. So, Bob or whoever has to know dang well who will buy, where, when, etc before he can risk his own cash paying the label up front for crap that might sit in his garage next to the Vertical record.

It's silly, but this is the way it is. Bands need money to be in the big leagues. Bands go to the loan shark with connections (the mob, or better known here as the record label). They sign over their rights to the music, receive pennies per release in the form of royalties, AFTER all bills have been paid. This is why so many "stars" go bankrupt. They trash their credit the day that they sign the dotted line.

[sue d.]

So how did the Loan Sharks ever GET so much money to start with - and so much control?

[brent]

So how did the Loan Sharks ever GET so much money to start with - and so much control?

Man you guys are at it. Books have been written about this, and are required reading for musicians and anyone else wanting to get into the "business".

The industry started with the broadcast companies owning labels and labels owning the studios and the distribution. At one time, you could not record anything unless you had a deal. Broadcast companies owned the artists. In the late 50s and 60s this began to change.

The control: "It's not what you know, but who you know." You need the right people to get to the right places. You now need the label to get the money up front, because nobody else will float it to you. You need the label to get on radio, TV shows, etc. You need tour support to afford the touring expenses. You need videos for the web, DVDs, enhanced CDs, etc. You need the label to get merch positioning, marketing, etc, etc. You need the label and relationships to get nominated for a Grammy. Sometimes producer/engineers sell their votes and crap product gets nominated and ramrodded through. It is rigged in some cases. In some cases not.

The money: Depends on the company.

The Christian industry traditionally has not had much money by comparison. Within the last 10-15 years secular labels pruchased a few Christian labels. Some small Christian labels still have owners mortgaging their houses for bands that they believe in.

The secular labels are in some cases are multi-faceted, like Sony. They do music, movies and games to sell equipment from consumer to broadcaster. Some others are funded by dirty money. There are some honest guys out there doing the indie thing, but they are not the norm, and certainly not at the top of the food chain.

[sue d.]

The industry started with the broadcast companies owning labels

I maybe should have stated this differently.

What I was wondering about is HOW did the concept of a LABEL come to be?

Someone at a radio station decided to start a side business?

yeah, I'm sure there are books galore on this.... but I'm too busy to dig. That's why we have YOU, Brent.

[brent]

Gotcha.

When Edison developed the telecine recorder, it was intended to record telephone calls. Later the invention was repackaged by Edison, Berliner, Comumbia, etc in the 1890s to be the phonograph. It was called the Gramophone like every tissue is called a Kleanex. This is also why the Grammy is a grammy.

The only way that these things would sell was if there was a need. So they created the need by selling the music. The music was cut on discs with the respective companies logo. This is how the labels started. They were not labels as they are today, but that is the beginning.

[Petrapraise]

I'll sell you an extra VHS copy of Wake-up Call I found at a used book store. Or anyone else who wants it.