David Lichens

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
calicowriter
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Post by calicowriter » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:48 am

anyone ever wonder what petra would be like today if lichens and cooper would stayed in the band
Nope. Petra would have ceased to exist long before this year if Lichens and Cooper had remained in the band.
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Post by p-freak » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:29 am

I think David didn't do Petra any good. In 1996 John Schlitt gave an interview to a Dutch magazine. He spoke about why Jim Cooper and David Lichens were fired from the band. I'll dig that story up and try to get an accurate translation for y'all.

But in the mean time you might wanna read this post over at Petrarocksmyworld.com: http://www.petrarocksmyworld.com/yabbse ... eadid=1021

I'm not in the habit of spreading around stories from hearsay, but this post at PRMW actually confirms what I've read in the John Schlitt interview from 1996.

So I'm not really wondering about what Petra would be like today with Lichens and Cooper, cause what Calicowriter says is absolutely true.
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Post by executioner » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:15 am

I know in recent time Jim Cooper has really changed for the better. He has formed a production company with Tony Palacios(Guardian) and they have been producing and writing music for some up and coming bands. I bought a CD the other day one of their groups and they are really good. Go and take a listen.



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Post by axelegend » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:04 am

executioner wrote:I know in recent time Jim Cooper has really changed for the better. He has formed a production company with Tony Palacios(Guardian) and they have been producing and writing music for some up and coming bands. I bought a CD the other day one of their groups and they are really good. Go and take a listen.
Jim Cooper was also involved with the production of Petra's Farewell CD; the audio was mixed by Tony Palacios.
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Post by executioner » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:01 am

axelegend wrote:
executioner wrote:I know in recent time Jim Cooper has really changed for the better. He has formed a production company with Tony Palacios(Guardian) and they have been producing and writing music for some up and coming bands. I bought a CD the other day one of their groups and they are really good. Go and take a listen.
Jim Cooper was also involved with the production of Petra's Farewell CD; the audio was mixed by Tony Palacios.
Yes I'm aware of that.
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Post by curt » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:11 pm

Since I heard David Lichens for the first time on the No Doubt tour I have always thought that he was a very talented musician. He was only 21 back then but was a great guitarplayer. By using more vintage guitars and sounds he made Petra sound a bit more modern compared to the trends at that time. To me it seemed that he could have changed the sound of Petra to something more interesting and popular.

I've heard that he did'nt like the idea of making another praise record back then. Well who can blame him? Most fans seem to agree that Petra was way too soft from the time Bob left till he returned again.

I dunno... I've just always felt that he is a bit underrated. Note that his song "Blue" has a guitarsolo that has a "No doubt"-sound to it. Sounds a bit like the solo in "Two are better than one". At least that's what I think.

And to all of you who never get tired of saying "It's all in the past don't worry about it." please note that I am only focusing on David as a musician not on all the personal issues of which we don't know much, since we have heard only one side of that story, and even that story seems very incomplete.

Curt
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Post by brent » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:38 pm

executioner wrote:
axelegend wrote:
executioner wrote:I know in recent time Jim Cooper has really changed for the better. He has formed a production company with Tony Palacios(Guardian) and they have been producing and writing music for some up and coming bands. I bought a CD the other day one of their groups and they are really good. Go and take a listen.
Jim Cooper was also involved with the production of Petra's Farewell CD; the audio was mixed by Tony Palacios.
Yes I'm aware of that.
Cooper is also buds with Keith at IndieHeaven, and produced an indie scholarship band for them.
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Post by brent » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:44 pm

curt wrote:Since I heard David Lichens for the first time on the No Doubt tour I have always thought that he was a very talented musician. He was only 21 back then but was a great guitarplayer. By using more vintage guitars and sounds he made Petra sound a bit more modern compared to the trends at that time. To me it seemed that he could have changed the sound of Petra to something more interesting and popular.

I've heard that he did'nt like the idea of making another praise record back then. Well who can blame him? Most fans seem to agree that Petra was way too soft from the time Bob left till he returned again.

I dunno... I've just always felt that he is a bit underrated. Note that his song "Blue" has a guitarsolo that has a "No doubt"-sound to it. Sounds a bit like the solo in "Two are better than one". At least that's what I think.

And to all of you who never get tired of saying "It's all in the past don't worry about it." please note that I am only focusing on David as a musician not on all the personal issues of which we don't know much, since we have heard only one side of that story, and even that story seems very incomplete.

Curt
It really is a moot point, because Petra could NOT remain "hard" rock. Petra had to change with the trends in music and fashion or get kicked to the curb. Unfortunately they did not have the people with the right money, brains and convictions behind them to push them to the next evolutionary level.

Petra was damned if they do and damned if they didn't, so....
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Post by curt » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:18 am

It really is a moot point, because Petra could NOT remain "hard" rock. Petra had to change with the trends in music and fashion or get kicked to the curb. Unfortunately they did not have the people with the right money, brains and convictions behind them to push them to the next evolutionary level.

Petra was damned if they do and damned if they didn't, so....
Could not remain "hard" rock??? That's what a lot of fans have wanted them to be. And the trends in the music and fashion did not change into a more pop-like sound. Actually it changed into some more grungy sounds. And Lichens had a bit of that grungy touch in his sounds.

Well, that's my opinion. Sorry if i misunderstood some of your points. I just don't see why they couldn't remain "hard" rock.

Curt
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Post by Shell » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:52 am

I think what Brent's referring to is radio...Petra had a hard time getting any songs played on the radio. They always had a hard time being accepted by the industry, particularly after the "dream team" years. Sigh. I sort of wonder what would have happened if Paul and Greg had joined the group a little earlier or if Bob hadn't left, but that's not really significant, especially not at this point.

And yeah, you're right, David's a very good guitarist.
Last edited by Shell on Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by brent » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:46 am

curt wrote:
It really is a moot point, because Petra could NOT remain "hard" rock. Petra had to change with the trends in music and fashion or get kicked to the curb. Unfortunately they did not have the people with the right money, brains and convictions behind them to push them to the next evolutionary level.

Petra was damned if they do and damned if they didn't, so....
Could not remain "hard" rock??? That's what a lot of fans have wanted them to be. And the trends in the music and fashion did not change into a more pop-like sound. Actually it changed into some more grungy sounds. And Lichens had a bit of that grungy touch in his sounds.

Well, that's my opinion. Sorry if i misunderstood some of your points. I just don't see why they couldn't remain "hard" rock.

Curt
Actually, the scene DID change. Christian radio and label management had changed. Christian radio was growing, because of format changes and catering to the female and/or younger audience. If you go back and investigate the styles and production of the top 40 Christian songs during the No Doubt and Wake Up Call era (which I think musically is some of Petra's best), you will find that Petra was right in line, if not still a little more "rock" than the rest. So, it was needed.

The big whammy is this. Petra's hard rock fan base is largely male. Males buy the music of their youth, which is generally rock. Females have changing style preferences as they mature, or have hallmark moments in their life. Statistics show that a large percentage of Christian males do not listen to Christian radio. Petra was NEEDING to be on Christian radio, because they were a Christian band. So, to stay, they had to appease the younger programmers/managers, etc and change, because rock to them was old school.

Had Petra gone to secular stations with some crossover tunes as well, I maintain that they would have retained their audience, if not increased it. I have tried voicing this to John, but he didn't get it. I am not saying Petra should have crossed over. I am saying Petra could have been more evangelistic, instead of singing to the church exclusively. If Jesus were a musician, I think that he would be opening at OzFest, not "LoveFest". Petra is one of the Christian band names that seculars remember, along with Stryper and Whitecross (the Van Halen of Christian music).

So, to sum it up, the rock fans (males) didn't matter to the label, management, radio, because you were a dried up source of revenue, who is stuck in the old days. The people spending the money are the teens 13-18 and young adult mothers 18-25 who usually control the house finances and listen to radio more often, albeit less intently than males.
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Post by Tutor23 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:00 pm

Back to the original thread on Lichens...
Yes, his music shows that he has talent. So what? Lots of folks have God-given talent. What matters is how one uses that talent. After being a part of Petra, a band with an unmistakable Christian message, it IS disappointing to see/hear that Lichens is employing his musical gifts to produce music devoid of any discernable Christian message.
Moreover, it's troubling to see a link on his myspace page that leads to what looks like a lesbian French kiss pic with profane music lyrics in the background. Someone correct me if I'm off base, but this doesn't look good at all in my view...
Andy
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Post by Shell » Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:31 pm

You make some good points, Andy, and you're right that people who say they're following Jesus should use their gifts for God. That's no matter who they are; David being a former guitarist for Petra isn't what's really important. You do reap what you sow, and if David isn't living for the Lord, it will catch up with him. How something looks to other people isn't what matters so much either as whether you're doing your best to live for the Lord...It's what the Lord thinks that's really important.
Last edited by Shell on Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tutor23 » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:01 pm

That's also a very good point, Shell. Thanks for adding that.

Sometimes we misjudge others, and so we do need to be careful. You might recall that Petra, back in the 70's and early-mid 80's, was accused of being "of the devi". And this came mostly from church leaders who felt that "rock music" was inherently satanic, or at least worldly, and who completely missed the life-changing message the Petra guys were putting out there to hungry audiences. Petra was badly misjudged in those early years. What appeared to some to be a sinister, insidious infiltration of worldly influences was, in fact, the opposite!

But I still maintain that it doesn't look good at all in the Lichens case. The often misquoted/mistranslated message of Jesus about judging others does NOT in fact say "do not judge", but rather "be careful how you judge, for by the same measure you judge others shall you also be judged." Of course we MUST make judgements in life, or we render ourselves incapable of making decisions about ANYTHING in life! ANd we are given ample measuring rods by which we can judge others - primarily by their actions ("fruits"). Petra's fruits resulted in thousands of souls being saved, and probably millions being ministered to. Dave Lichen's fruits? I guess the jury's still out, but it doesn't appear that he has aims that look anything like those of Petra.
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Post by Shell » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:17 pm

There's a place to ask questions; you can't really learn without asking questions, and someone who knows their heart is right shouldn't have a problem with that so long as the questions are worded in a nonaccusing way. But you need to keep in mind too, you can only get an incomplete picture at best by what you might read on the Internet...Sure, you can get a general idea of what someone's values or priorities might be by something like a myspace profile, and it's probably pretty safe to say someone who has a profile with the f-bomb plastered all over it or has a lot of bunnies links doesn't have Christian values. But how many of us here have really sat down and spent any time talking to David? I would venture to guess not many. And do we know for sure David is actually the one running the site? Of course, if someone else is running it, he would be wise to keep tabs on what they have on it. Like you said, though, the proof is in the fruit.
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