GXV recent solo performance w/Louie

[adpetrafan]

What I'm sensing from the comments in this thread is that there are some who say that legalism is bad, therefore we can't have any standards.

That is not what I get at all. We need biblical standards. We do not need non biblically based "religious" standards like, not being able to use playing cards, or not being able to get tattoos, or not wearing certain types of clothes, etc, etc, etc.

[gman]

What I'm sensing from the comments in this thread is that there are some who say that legalism is bad, therefore we can't have any standards.

That is not what I get at all. We need biblical standards. We do not need non biblically based "religious" standards like, not being able to use playing cards, or not being able to get tattoos, or not wearing certain types of clothes, etc, etc, etc.

I agree with you there. I grew up as a Pastor's kid, and I listened to all sorts of Christian rock and general CCM. My dad and I played cards all the time. We would go to the boardwalk and blow money on games of chance for prizes. He may have frowned on some things. Drinking and smoking come to mind. Tattooes, only because he had several of them, and they represented his life prior to coming to Christ. But, he didn't regard those things as something to shun somebody over.
I think some folks watched the video, and they saw something they thought crossed into biblical standards. I don't know any context beyond the video, so I don't want to automatically throw Greg or his family under the bus. I will say this though. As much as my Dad allowed, he also had pretty strict standards for himself on certain things that he absolutely would not do or be involved in because he didn't want to give anyone a wrong impression, or give them ammo to attck him and his ministry.

[pmal]

All I will say about this subject is what I keep thinking about, while watching all of the videos and reading all of the comments in this thread:

"I think Petra's greatest accomplishment has been maintaining its good reputation for the last 33 years," concludes Hartman.

I wonder what he would think about all of this ... although, I hope he doesn't see it (this thread), for his own sake.

[mikey32187]

All I will say about this subject is what I keep thinking about, while watching all of the videos and reading all of the comments in this thread:

"I think Petra's greatest accomplishment has been maintaining its good reputation for the last 33 years," concludes Hartman.

I wonder what he would think about all of this ... although, I hope he doesn't see it (this thread), for his own sake.

^^^^This, this is the whole crux of the argument that people do not seem to be getting. This is not about legalism, this is not about dress length, this is not about the "evils" of singing secular music. This is about Petra's (and its band members') Godly character, reputation and history being a standout uncompromising and unshakable ministry when many of their counterparts have went the way of compromise and mainstream! Seeing something like this is a shock.

I have said this many times over and I will reiterate it here. in capital letters if I may.

IF IT WERE ANY OTHER ARTIST I WOULD NOT CARE!!!!!

and I venture to say that those who are equally as shocked and concerned by this as I am, it would not bother them as much either.

[Dev]

What you don't know about me is that I am 46 years old. I was born going to church. My dad was a minister, youth director, deacon. Since 1988 I have been an audio/video/control service provider to churches. During my time doing PDC, we have interfaced with churches. I DO NOT want to be what I have experienced other people being. I do not want to play church. Church is a serious participatory gathering. It is not something you watch like entertainment. I have worked for most of the evangelists you have seen on TV, a few mega churches, large churches, and have been in and around the CCM industry. I have seen my share of phony people and they make me sick. Many people well respected are no more saved than my ironing board.

God does not do his work only at the family gathering in a "church building". God works us over while we set ourselves apart. Actually, Paul said that the devil works us over. I would rather be real, be set aside, rather than go live a lie and fake it. It's not a matter of committing sin and sitting home when I sin. If that were the case, I would never go. I do not want to contaminate the whole loaf when I am in a funk, or dealing with something. It doesn't happen often. My work keeps me a way enough.

Maybe some of you have had this happen. You deal with something and it seems like all of the programs on the radio are hitting on that issue. I have been scanning the radio and Chuck hits me between the eyes with something in the 10 seconds my tuner is parked on that station. God does his thing outside of the time WE have scheduled and WHERE we have chosen to meet. Then there is the bible itself.... My favorite is the personal interaction with people who REALLY know and SEE THROUGH me...you know, the "two or more". I can assure you that God works that way as well. He shows up.

***I hear you, Brent. From what you said, we have similar backgrounds and life experience, although at 42 I'm a few years behind you. My dad is a minister, too, so I spent MANY hours at church growing up. I have trust issues with people in general because of all the behind the scenes issues I saw from the sidelines (not my parents, they were awesome) but from people who were supposedly stalwart Christians. For the last 17 years, I've been the director of an international Christian organization. As for CCM, I'm a child of the 80s who used to go to concerts every weekend so I saw all the major 80s-90s acts at least once and I used to promote concerts in our area at our church. Mylon, David and the Giants, The Amigos to name a few.

The problem with staying away from church (and I'm speaking to myself here, too) is that when we're at our lowest and farthest away from God is when we NEED to go. Jesus said He came for the sick because the well don't need a doctor.

For me, I sometimes struggle to go to church because I'm not a morning person and I'm around Christian ministry all week so I usually want a break from it all. And I don't know about you, but at our age, I'm just getting a little tired of the routine. lol But the thing about church--whether you go on whatever day or in a building or beside a pond, it's not about you. All those things you mentioned--hearing a song at the right time, Chuck (Charles Stanley??) saying just the right thing are all God's little "hellos" and encouragements throughout the week. Church is about us giving back and being obedient--almost like a tithe (I know it's not 10%) of our time. Far from letting our issues keep us away, we're supposed to set aside all of our crap, renew our commitment, if need be, and focus on Him not all the fakers around us.

[Dev]

I wonder what he would think about all of this ... although, I hope he doesn't see it (this thread), for his own sake.

IF IT WERE ANY OTHER ARTIST I WOULD NOT CARE!!!!!

and I venture to say that those who are equally as shocked and concerned by this as I am, it would not bother them as much either.

***Mikey, please don't take this the wrong way, but that's why it so important to keep your eyes on the Lord and not any particular man. Men (people) will let you down every time, sometimes on purpose and sometimes inadvertently. If you wouldn't be this upset by this behavior from someone else, then it's not so much the actions you're riled about, it's the personas involved. And that might be the real issue you're so upset. If so, why not just forgive them and chalk it up to human imperfection?

Don't get me wrong, I've stated over and over that I think both guys made a poor choice, but I don't think either is in fear of losing his salvation over it. Nor do I think an argument could be made that their ministries --past, current or future --are forever tarnished by it. And you know what else? It's possible both guys went home after these respective showings, got convicted and repented. Maybe not, we don't know.

[mikey32187]

fair enough

[gman]

I have said time and time again that I don't have a problem with what either of them did, I only have a problem with people holding them to two different sets of standards.

I'll speak for myself and say that I don't have a problem with either guy singing secular tunes. Lots of Christians make a living performing secular songs in a variety of settings. My eyebrows were raised specifically by the women on the stage, what they were wearing and doing, and like other folks, I was disappointed to see Greg on stage while that was going on. If that stuff wasn't going on, there woudn't have been a firestorm over the video; see John's videos and the firestorm that didn't occur. Both men can sing secular tunes to their hearts content. I was disappointed in what I saw in the video of Greg, but as I've said numerous times, I don't have the larger context and I don't know the people involved, so I leave it at that.

[sue d.]

I know John & Bob are going to do the new Petra single Saturday at the Pethead convention - looking fwd to hearing that live!

[p-freak]

I know John & Bob are going to do the new Petra single Saturday at the Pethead convention - looking fwd to hearing that live!

Video!! Video!!

[fcollazo]

Why isn't Greg invited to the Pethead convention? Because his skirt is not long enough????

[brent]

lol.

[executioner]

Why isn't Greg invited to the Pethead convention? Because his skirt is not long enough????

I'm not sure if you meant it as a joke or were serious, but from what I understand other members of Petra were invited to the Pethead Convention but for reasons unknown declined(usually has to do with schedules). I will let you know that also money is limited on something like this and that probably makes for a limited amount of special guests to be put on the appearance schedule.

[Shell]

There have been several posts made about schedules not allowing everyone to participate in this. There's more involved in planning something like this than we probably know, and I don't think anyone is trying to slight or leave out anyone here.

I'll give Filipe the benefit of the doubt and assume the comment was said jokingly.

[fcollazo]

I was joking tongue in cheek just for laughs, but I was really wondering how the Pethead convention would be with both John and Greg interacting singing together. that would have been awesome!