Is Petra done?

[fcollazo]

Isn't it funny that Louie was fired in part for trying to turn Petra into a P&W band, and now we see what has become of Petra. The first Petra related product after the "Retirement" was a P&W record by II Guys from "PETRA", then the first Petra single in 10 years is a P&W song. How ironic!

[brent]

No, he was not fired for that. Don't misread what I said.

Louie was fired/left for being Louie. Please don't make this about being a praise band. Like Exec has stated, Louie did not like the direction things were headed, did not want to rehearse or record. and wanted to change the business of the business, taking steps to "help" on his own.

Louie was employed to be a drummer. Louie was not the manager, booking agent, publicist, etc. When he began performing these functions, representing the band as an entity it was not set up to be, then that became an issue. Sometimes great intensions are not good ideas. This is akin to an employee of a corporation like Walmart using personal resources to market and advertise himself as a Walmart painting contractor, when the store sells paint, but not the service, and has not authorized the employee to represent them on their behalf. It opens up a big can of legal worms.

Louie is a strong willed, driven, opinionated, type of guy. I am this type of guy. So, I appreciate how he is wired. Sometimes strengths are weaknesses when working under/for people who have a different vision for an operation, especially when you do not agree with how things are run.

[sue d.]

Well said, Brent. That's pretty much tbe gist of it all...

[fcollazo]

You still cant deny that Petra has turnef into a P&W act, even though there is nothing wrong with that.

[executioner]

No, he was not fired for that. Don't misread what I said.

Louie was fired/left for being Louie. Please don't make this about being a praise band. Like Exec has stated, Louie did not like the direction things were headed, did not want to rehearse or record. and wanted to change the business of the business, taking steps to "help" on his own.

Louie was employed to be a drummer. Louie was not the manager, booking agent, publicist, etc. When he began performing these functions, representing the band as an entity it was not set up to be, then that became an issue. Sometimes great intensions are not good ideas. This is akin to an employee of a corporation like Walmart using personal resources to market and advertise himself as a Walmart painting contractor, when the store sells paint, but not the service, and has not authorized the employee to represent them on their behalf. It opens up a big can of legal worms.

Louie is a strong willed, driven, opinionated, type of guy. I am this type of guy. So, I appreciate how he is wired. Sometimes strengths are weaknesses when working under/for people who have a different vision for an operation, especially when you do not agree with how things are run.

I didn't know Louie had taken it that far and after checking into what he did was actually a Federal crime; so lets just say Bob and/or John gave him a lot of grace in the matter and he should count his blessings that's all he got(was loss of job). I find it hard to believe with Louie being in the business and the band for that length of time that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. Louie is what Brent says he is in the above paragraph, but the ones that have defended Louie over the last 10 years and have gone on to bash John about this really need to look at this a second time and also Louie has always publicly said he never deserved for this to happen; well me being a small business owner if I had a long time employee come in and without my knowledge try and change my tax/legal status just because he felt like "its the direction we are headed" I probably would not given him/her as much grace that Louie got.

I always felt like the final straw was Louie not willing to come in and do the studio work for JAH, but I guess it was this legal matter that sent it over the edge.

[executioner]

You still cant deny that Petra has turnef into a P&W act, even though there is nothing wrong with that.

That's really a mute point in this matter, isn't it?

[fcollazo]

But its so true none the less.

[fcollazo]

Of course now I can really understand how serious the situation was with Louie. Thats a mayor offense. The evidence is in the documents Daniel posted from the Government of Tennessee. It clearly shows the not for profit company name change after the big debacle, around the same dates of 2002 and 2003.

[executioner]

Louie was one of my favorites in the band and I was really heart broken when he was fired, but after learning & seeing what I knew for several years and also finding out what he did with the profit/nonprofit status without permission yeah his firing was totally justifiable and if I was in those shoes I would have done the same and maybe some legal action also, especially since all along he has maintained he did nothing wrong and didn't deserve this. I do know that in order for him to be included on the Classic Petra gig he had to make some concessions with his attitude and basically was taken under Greg's Wing as his responsibility.

[Shell]

Well, I've been to enough concerts and been around John enough to know he's strong willed too. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that; in fact, you have to be to survive in the music biz. I'd actually rather deal with someone like that than someone who is a backstabber. Strong willed people can clash when they're working together if they have different ideas on how to do things.

My take is that there is usually right and wrong on the part of everyone involved in situations like that, even if one person happens to be more right or wrong than the other. They probably did what they had to.

[Mountain Man]

Isn't it funny that Louie was fired in part for trying to turn Petra into a P&W band, and now we see what has become of Petra. The first Petra related product after the "Retirement" was a P&W record by II Guys from "PETRA", then the first Petra single in 10 years is a P&W song. How ironic!

II Guys From Petra was not Petra. It was a made-to-order side project for a youth conference who wanted that kind of music for their worship services, and to my knowledge, Petra does not play any of the II Guys material in their shows. And while "Holy Is Your Name" has a strong praise and worship vibe, Petra still plays all their hard-hitting classics on tour, so it's a stretch to say that Petra has turned into a praise and worship band.

But that's neither here nor there. Interesting information coming out in this thread. Honestly, it sounds like Louie was lucky he didn't serve jail time for his stunt.

[thunderecho]

Well, I've been to enough concerts and been around John enough to know he's strong willed too. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that; in fact, you have to be to survive in the music biz. I'd actually rather deal with someone like that than someone who is a backstabber. Strong willed people can clash when they're working together if they have different ideas on how to do things.

My take is that there is usually right and wrong on the part of everyone involved in situations like that, even if one person happens to be more right or wrong than the other. They probably did what they had to.

Managing personalities is an unenviable task of a band leader. Band members can either buy-in to the vision or go do their own thing somewhere else. You have to check your ego at the door. My youngest brother missed an opportunity at mainstream success in a secular band. The band terminated his employment after several months of friction. His role in the band was made clear upfront. He deviated from his assigned duties and caused some issues. When he complained to me about what happened, I told him "the band didn't fire you, you fired yourself". The whole irony to this is my brother is an amazing player (he received complements from some great musicians) but is now having problems landing auditions. Is it really worth it to pour misery on the band and make things difficult if you don't like the direction or style of the band? My brother hasn't learned his lesson and developed a less tha stellar reputation. Sad, sad, sad.

[brent]

Guitarist or drummer?

[thunderecho]

Guitarist or drummer?

Drummer in a hardcore rock band.

[Shell]

Guitarist or drummer?

Drummer in a hardcore rock band.

Hmmmm...That might actually say something about drummers in general.

When it gets right down to it, we all at least have the capacity to behave like horse's behinds, even if we choose not to act on that tendency. Some folks just choose to do so more than others. And they usually do end up reaping the consequences sooner or later.