Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by St_Augustines_Pears » Sat May 17, 2014 8:58 am

The only decent thing on Double Take is "The Longing"...I absolutely love that song.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by p-freak » Sat May 17, 2014 9:26 am

Petra didn't lose the contract with Word over Double Take. It was the last album left on the contract they had and they were already planning not to renew it. Word also did a bad job with pushing back the release date of the album. It was finished in mid-1999, slated for an October release, but Word decided to push it back to February 2000, without any rationale. I doubt if they even told the band.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by pmal » Sat May 17, 2014 2:42 pm

Well, they certainly weren't renewed after DT either. I think it most certainly cost them the label renewal, but I think we are discussing semantics at this point. Whether WORD promoted it well or not, Petra had a deteriorating fan base and most fans disliked that album, one that it probably cost a lot of money to make. After GF and DT, I think it cost them any chance to renew with the label. I stand by my original comments, although I hate to.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by executioner » Sat May 17, 2014 5:43 pm

pmal wrote:Well, they certainly weren't renewed after DT either. I think it most certainly cost them the label renewal, but I think we are discussing semantics at this point. Whether WORD promoted it well or not, Petra had a deteriorating fan base and most fans disliked that album, one that it probably cost a lot of money to make. After GF and DT, I think it cost them any chance to renew with the label. I stand by my original comments, although I hate to.
I agree with you; those 2 albums plus having No Doubt only 5 years prior didn't do Petra any favors. Those 3 albums in a five year period killed any fan base Petra had. BTW I'm not saying Word was up for a renewal, but they weren't the ones that decided not to pursue a renewal; that was all Petra's decision.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by Mountain Man » Sat May 17, 2014 7:11 pm

pmal wrote:Well, they certainly weren't renewed after DT either. I think it most certainly cost them the label renewal...
Like I said, their relationship with Word was over well before that point.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by p-freak » Sun May 18, 2014 1:41 am

I have an audio recording of Bob commenting on Double Take from a seminar at Kingdom Bound Festival. He's responding to a question about if Petra will do a live record. I think this is from Kingdom Bound 2003 or 2004.
Actually, we had a chance to do a live album a few years ago. It was our last album with Word, when we were on Word. And it was supposed to be a live album. And they came to us and said: "Please don't do a live album. Do Anything else, but a live album." You see, record companies generally don't like live albums, because they feel like they don't sell as well. [...] So we said, well, we got this idea, and it was Double Take. So that was why we did Double Take when we did, because they begged us not to do a live record. Well, if we had to do it in retrospect, a live record might've been a lot better.
So DT was the last album of the contract, but I don't believe DT was the reason they didn't continue with Word. I think support for them from Word had been dwindling for a while and I believe that all the key people involved in the early Dayspring/Word records had moved on.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by brent » Sun May 18, 2014 9:42 pm

The reason why live albums are not desired is because of sales. Few live albums have sold well compared to new music releases. EMI always wanted a couple of new tunes thrown in. Live albums cost the labels profits. There are more royalty issues to deal with. The albums can never sell for what a new album sells for. The public's perception is live albums contain what I already have purchased, so I am not buying it again. Live = death and last resort. Because live albums are turned in at the end of a contract or to bail the band out of a situation, the perception is the band put no effort into it so why should the listener? This is a proven fact.

Petra did sell some records for Word. My old distributor, Eric Nordoff, handled Petra's international sales at Word. Petra did some good numbers back then. But, from what I understand, the numbers were choked by the nasty Christian black market in South America, Brazil, Europe where bootlegging is rampant.

Word didn't do crap for Petra. Word bought what they perceived to be a cash cow, without investing in it. Record business people are generally idiots. If they know so much, why aren't they the ones on stage, playing the gigs, writing the great songs, etc. No, they want to change the formula and leave their finger prints on it.

The best way to do music is get the right people in the room with the best ideas and shut up. Pay the bills to facilitate the creativity and get out of the way. AFTER the goods are delivered, do the shyster peddling work you have to do to get it to distributed, positioned in retail, promoted and purchased. Word had it backwards. Most labels do.

I DO think Petra should have listened and quit at the top of their game, giving people a chance to miss them. It could possibly have seeded the ground for bigger splash. Word and others DID try to tell them this. Come back tours can't happen if you never really go away.

John and Louie told me I did more promotional work for them at GMA Week than Word ever did. That is sad and disgusting. What I did was make an effort. John and I were on an elevator to an interview when the big wig for Word got on. John and the old dude said hello. That was about it. When the guy got off on his floor, John asked if I knew him. I told him no. I asked if I needed to. He said, "Nah. You're doing alright without him." That made me feel good, but it made me sad. Here was John FREAKIN Schlitt from PETRA for God's sake (literally) and they were being pawned off like a red headed step child who had no more inheritance money to give away. What crap.

There is nothing Christian about the Christian music industry, aside from the lyrics and the people on the ground floor delivering them. The people in the labels can't do it or used to do it, and are trying to hang on. The people further up are bankers and attorneys. That's it. If Jesus became illegal tomorrow, they would stop selling Jesus in a box and would sell something else, or close up shop. It's all supply and demand, cash and carry. It doesn't matter if it sucks or if it is wrong.

Sue has likely done more grass roots stuff than anyone...out of love.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by Mountain Man » Mon May 19, 2014 1:27 pm

Maybe I'm not the typical consumer, then, because I actually really like live albums. My Johnny Cash collection has multiple versions of the same song between studio and live recordings because every performance is different -- sometimes dramatically so. In other case there are songs that were only done live and never studio recorded, such as Petra's "The Great I Am". It still kills me that the "Dream Team" never recorded a live album during the Beyond Belief tour.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by sickasadog » Mon May 19, 2014 4:11 pm

Mountain Man wrote:Maybe I'm not the typical consumer, then, because I actually really like live albums. My Johnny Cash collection has multiple versions of the same song between studio and live recordings because every performance is different -- sometimes dramatically so. In other case there are songs that were only done live and never studio recorded, such as Petra's "The Great I Am". It still kills me that the "Dream Team" never recorded a live album during the Beyond Belief tour.
I love live albums and bootlegs, too. You really get to know an artist when you listen to their live recordings.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by BriGuyPEI » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:42 pm

St_Augustines_Pears wrote:The only decent thing on Double Take is "The Longing"...I absolutely love that song.
It was Joel Hanson from PFR who wrote that one. I have a solo album of his where he does the song, and I must say that I like his original version better.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by brent » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:01 am

I liked PFR. They were kind of quirky. They had some good songs.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by Mountain Man » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:52 am

They were all excellent musicians, too. One of the best three-piece bands in the music industry.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by Carolina Petra Fan » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:59 am

PFR were recently going to do a kickstarter, but something personal happened within one of the member's family and they decided to not do it. In fact, PFR stated they were quitting for good. That's unfortunate because I liked some of their songs, too.
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Re: Double Take: Music vs Lyrics

Post by Mountain Man » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:50 pm

They quit before in 1998 and released a "best of" album along with three new songs, one titled "Fair Thee Well" which was a musical wave goodbye to their fans. Then a few years later they came out with a new album and tour, and they recorded a live album in 2012, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see them back again.
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