THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
jmslick
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by jmslick » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:03 pm

fcollazo wrote:Could you tell us how guys came up with the concept of the Petra sound and set up as we know it now.
I think that Bob's guitar style was somewhat influenced by Kansas and the overall sound perhaps influenced vaguely by Journey.

Last night, I was listening to NSD songs, and noticed that the playing was good, but that there was a major leap of skill by the next year, with MPTY. Also, MPTY has a lot more "wall of sound" style in the mix. But we had the same engineer and producer on those two albums, as well as on NOTW: JDBrown.

I wish I'd know more about the possible tone variety of the Hammond B3 organ. I would have liked to use more variety in drawbars and use of the C3 chorus. I should have used more acoustic and electric pianos too, for example, changing between them on verses and chorus, etc.

Back to your question: we didn't set out to invent any particular style of sound. Greg provided the very unique and excellent voice; Bob provided the excellent and inspired songs, plus his solid grunge and expressive melodic solos; I provided some musical diversity which they'd never had before.

My musical background included viola, double bass, electric bass, classical piano, Hammond organ, and synthesizers. I studied 18th century counterpoint (Bach), arranging and composition, music theory, and works by Bach, Brahms, Beethoven, Debussy, Chopin, Ravel, etc. Plus, I had a lot of exposure to jazz, so brought some interesting new chords to the "mix", for example this big "doom chord" from Second Wind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNMDE6vAINA&t=3m07s
That's an E7#5#9:
E G# D G C E G

I hope you don't mind me rambling on about this stuff. You asked! :mrgreen:
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by fcollazo » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:00 pm

John, no rambling at all. I love the explanations. And you are right on point. I was always so proud of Petra because I could hear the leap of improvement with each new release. It was always with huge anticipation that I awaited every new Petra record because I knew you guys would blow our minds. By the way to me NOTW is the perfect mature Petra record, so cohesive, so crisp.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by brent » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:44 pm

I think if you look at who produced the records, you will get an idea of who was the man behind the sound. That would be JDB's doing.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by executioner » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:13 pm

jmslick wrote:
fcollazo wrote:Could you tell us how guys came up with the concept of the Petra sound and set up as we know it now.
I think that Bob's guitar style was somewhat influenced by Kansas and the overall sound perhaps influenced vaguely by Journey.

Last night, I was listening to NSD songs, and noticed that the playing was good, but that there was a major leap of skill by the next year, with MPTY. Also, MPTY has a lot more "wall of sound" style in the mix. But we had the same engineer and producer on those two albums, as well as on NOTW: JDBrown.

I wish I'd know more about the possible tone variety of the Hammond B3 organ. I would have liked to use more variety in drawbars and use of the C3 chorus. I should have used more acoustic and electric pianos too, for example, changing between them on verses and chorus, etc.

Back to your question: we didn't set out to invent any particular style of sound. Greg provided the very unique and excellent voice; Bob provided the excellent and inspired songs, plus his solid grunge and expressive melodic solos; I provided some musical diversity which they'd never had before.

My musical background included viola, double bass, electric bass, classical piano, Hammond organ, and synthesizers. I studied 18th century counterpoint (Bach), arranging and composition, music theory, and works by Bach, Brahms, Beethoven, Debussy, Chopin, Ravel, etc. Plus, I had a lot of exposure to jazz, so brought some interesting new chords to the "mix", for example this big "doom chord" from Second Wind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNMDE6vAINA&t=3m07s
That's an E7#5#9:
E G# D G C E G

I hope you don't mind me rambling on about this stuff. You asked! :mrgreen:
This is so awesome to sit here and read these responses and insight. Thank you so much for bringing this to light.
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jmslick
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by jmslick » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:45 pm

brent wrote:I think if you look at who produced the records, you will get an idea of who was the man behind the sound. That would be JDB's doing.
The "sound" is a very subjective topic. It's more about:
- vocal tone and blend (Greg and Mark blended very well vocally)
- guitar tone: acoustic and grungy electric stuff as well as Bob's wide range of expression in solos
- keyboard sounds and other decorative stuff.

Of course, JDB was a very competent engineer and he knew how to get a lot out of us. The aspect of the "sound" that could be directly attributed to him was the mix. Somewhere, someone commented that the mix of 1982/83 or so was in part styled in a way that would appeal to and appease the Christian record business. If that's true, then the mix could have been a lot more aggressive.

I dunno... maybe it had to do with the live bat which I caught flying around the control room one night at Indian Creek Recording in Uvalde, TX.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by brent » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:05 pm

He told me a story about how you guys had a bunch of 2" tape on the floor and someone walked into the door and about spoiled it all. Good stuff.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by executioner » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:06 pm

I'm from Texas(Dallas area) and I've often wondered why record all the way out in Uvalde, TX. How long did you all stay out there to record and what did the Uvalde experience add to the sound of the album? If anyone on here has been there then they will now about the vibe out that way; really not much to see or do. Of that era More Power To Ya was by far the best album Petra did; Always felt like Never Say Die was still stuck in the 70's and I felt Not Of This World had a lot to live up to with being right after MPTY; More Power To Ya was the perfect album at the perfect time.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by Mountain Man » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:12 pm

jmslick wrote:Chameleon to Angel of Light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWCOC71BdfY&t=2m0s
I'd forgotten all about that transition, but I really like the in-your-face pipe organ sound.
When I played the weird church organ stuff (mish-mash of Bach and Chopin) at the end of the Chameleon recording, JDBrown joked, "That's where the chameleon died." :lol:
You might find this amusing: I was one of the only kids in high school listening to Christian rock. The other kids were all into Van Halen, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, etc. and had never heard Petra even though I kept trying to convince them to give it a try. One day I was listening to NEVER SAY DIE and was right at the end of "Chameleon" when my friend snatched the head phones off my head to have a listen. For about 15-seconds, he was convinced that "Christian rock" was old timey church organ music. The look he gave me! Thankfully "Angel of Light" kicked in immediately afterwards and my choice of music was redeemed.
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jmslick
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by jmslick » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:26 pm

brent wrote:He told me a story about how you guys had a bunch of 2" tape on the floor and someone walked into the door and about spoiled it all. Good stuff.
It must have been someone else, maybe Lawry, but not me.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by jmslick » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:06 pm

executioner wrote:I'm from Texas(Dallas area) and I've often wondered why record all the way out in Uvalde, TX. How long did you all stay out there to record and what did the Uvalde experience add to the sound of the album?
I don't know how that studio was decided on, but probably was mostly up to JDB. I suppose it was a matter of cost, equipment, quality of the console, and a good place to get away from civilization and be creative or something.

We Don't Need No Stinkin' Badges
It was a really interesting experience. We stayed in town, at a rambling dusty old house owned by a guy who I suppose also owned the studio. The studio was several miles outside of town, down a dusty dirt road with a "bump gate" to keep the live stock in, but allow cars to pass without having to get out to open the gate. You just drive up slowly, bump the gate and it swings open.

The terrain was very rugged... dusty, dry and thirsty with steep rocky foothills all around, sagebrush and tumbleweeds.
It could easily have been used in the set of a Clint Eastwood Western. Maybe it was the original picture for that ancient Petra album with the rock wall?

The Institute for Petrafied Zoological Research
There were lots of creatures, including millions of jack rabbits http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread18368.htm, mules, horses, huge green centipedes about 1/2" thick and a couple inches long with orange legs http://imgur.com/gallery/sIdkdNg, and plenty of buzzards which would circle the sky during the day. Maybe they thought we were out of water? There was a .22 rifle there, so when bored, we'd shoot at the buzzards a bit. I clipped one in the wing, but the wing being mostly feathers, he just barely wobbled a bit then laughed at me and kept right on circling. Never brought one down.

There were also scorpions. On one song, the drummer was counting off "1 2 3 4..." when suddenly Mark hollered, "Whoa! Check out this scorpion!" It was just walking along a wooden rail in the sound room. No one got stung during the entire stay.

Who's at Bat?
One night, I decided to sleep at the studio so I could work on keyboard parts the next day. I stretched out on the couch in the control room. As I was dozing off, something flew by, then it did again... and again. I turned on the light and there as a bat flying in circles around the room. It lit on a wall, so I took a record album and a big plastic cup and trapped it, then let it go outside. True story.

Do the Bunny Hop
Mark had a small hatchback car and one night we left the studio to head into town. As were were driving along the dirt road, the jack rabbits would run in packs along side; if we'd stop, they'd stop, frozen in the glare of the head lights. Mark said, "I'm gonna get me one'a these rabbits!" So he stopped the car, jumped out, and grabbed Bugs by the huge ears and tossed it into the car with me. The stupid rabbit started jumping up and down between the seat and roof, like a hairy superball... funniest thing I've every seen. :lol: :lol: So we opened the hatch and let it out.

Another time, a rabbit got into the little kitchen at the studio, and got in the crack between the wall the the 'fridge. So, I leaned in and gently poked with a broom handle to persuade him to come out. Like a shot, he sprang to life, lept at a 45 degree angle out of the crack, and literally bounced off my forehead then started bouncing around the kitchen! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I think I still rabbit paw marks on my head.

Don't know that the Uvalde experience added anything particular, but it was different from recording at the Starsong studio in "Stinkadena" (Houston), because there was no one popping in to see what was happening. The situation also provided ample private time to work on keyboard parts: I developed all the many different parts of Road To Zion in the privacy of the bedroom at the rooming house in town. I have a picture of that somewhere. Need to find all that stuff.

I also liked that studio because it had a great Fender Rhodes piano and a gritty sounding Hammond B3.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by brent » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:05 am

jmslick wrote:
brent wrote:He told me a story about how you guys had a bunch of 2" tape on the floor and someone walked into the door and about spoiled it all. Good stuff.
It must have been someone else, maybe Lawry, but not me.
It could be JDB's old age. When we get old we fogret stffu.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by petraman » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:07 pm

This has to be some of the most fun I've had on the Petra zone in a long time, thanks John, love reading your stories.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by executioner » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:53 pm

jmslick wrote:
executioner wrote:I'm from Texas(Dallas area) and I've often wondered why record all the way out in Uvalde, TX. How long did you all stay out there to record and what did the Uvalde experience add to the sound of the album?
I don't know how that studio was decided on, but probably was mostly up to JDB. I suppose it was a matter of cost, equipment, quality of the console, and a good place to get away from civilization and be creative or something.

We Don't Need No Stinkin' Badges
It was a really interesting experience. We stayed in town, at a rambling dusty old house owned by a guy who I suppose also owned the studio. The studio was several miles outside of town, down a dusty dirt road with a "bump gate" to keep the live stock in, but allow cars to pass without having to get out to open the gate. You just drive up slowly, bump the gate and it swings open.

The terrain was very rugged... dusty, dry and thirsty with steep rocky foothills all around, sagebrush and tumbleweeds.
It could easily have been used in the set of a Clint Eastwood Western. Maybe it was the original picture for that ancient Petra album with the rock wall?

The Institute for Petrafied Zoological Research
There were lots of creatures, including millions of jack rabbits http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread18368.htm, mules, horses, huge green centipedes about 1/2" thick and a couple inches long with orange legs http://imgur.com/gallery/sIdkdNg, and plenty of buzzards which would circle the sky during the day. Maybe they thought we were out of water? There was a .22 rifle there, so when bored, we'd shoot at the buzzards a bit. I clipped one in the wing, but the wing being mostly feathers, he just barely wobbled a bit then laughed at me and kept right on circling. Never brought one down.

There were also scorpions. On one song, the drummer was counting off "1 2 3 4..." when suddenly Mark hollered, "Whoa! Check out this scorpion!" It was just walking along a wooden rail in the sound room. No one got stung during the entire stay.

Who's at Bat?
One night, I decided to sleep at the studio so I could work on keyboard parts the next day. I stretched out on the couch in the control room. As I was dozing off, something flew by, then it did again... and again. I turned on the light and there as a bat flying in circles around the room. It lit on a wall, so I took a record album and a big plastic cup and trapped it, then let it go outside. True story.

Do the Bunny Hop
Mark had a small hatchback car and one night we left the studio to head into town. As were were driving along the dirt road, the jack rabbits would run in packs along side; if we'd stop, they'd stop, frozen in the glare of the head lights. Mark said, "I'm gonna get me one'a these rabbits!" So he stopped the car, jumped out, and grabbed Bugs by the huge ears and tossed it into the car with me. The stupid rabbit started jumping up and down between the seat and roof, like a hairy superball... funniest thing I've every seen. :lol: :lol: So we opened the hatch and let it out.

Another time, a rabbit got into the little kitchen at the studio, and got in the crack between the wall the the 'fridge. So, I leaned in and gently poked with a broom handle to persuade him to come out. Like a shot, he sprang to life, lept at a 45 degree angle out of the crack, and literally bounced off my forehead then started bouncing around the kitchen! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I think I still rabbit paw marks on my head.

Don't know that the Uvalde experience added anything particular, but it was different from recording at the Starsong studio in "Stinkadena" (Houston), because there was no one popping in to see what was happening. The situation also provided ample private time to work on keyboard parts: I developed all the many different parts of Road To Zion in the privacy of the bedroom at the rooming house in town. I have a picture of that somewhere. Need to find all that stuff.

I also liked that studio because it had a great Fender Rhodes piano and a gritty sounding Hammond B3.
This is TEXAS!!!
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jmslick
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by jmslick » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:16 pm

brent wrote:
jmslick wrote:
brent wrote:He told me a story about how you guys had a bunch of 2" tape on the floor and someone walked into the door and about spoiled it all. Good stuff.
It must have been someone else, maybe Lawry, but not me.
It could be JDB's old age. When we get old we fogret stffu.
As you certainly know well, JDB had/has quite an imagination. I'll say one thing: he always made me laugh.
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Re: THEY OWNED THE STAGE!!

Post by sue d. » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:00 pm

I love reading/hearing about the history of the band... don't feel you're rambling. This is INTERESTING!
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