JDB

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jmslick
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Re: JDB

Post by jmslick » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:35 am

It's ludicrous to think that either one of those stories is a full and accurate account of the facts.
But, here is something one can confidently accept as a 100 per cent accurate, undeniable, and irrefutable commentary on human nature:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBOwPORHGU

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Re: JDB

Post by curt » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:00 am

I agree with Slick on this case.

For me it was an interesting read but not something I found convincing. Though the courts are not without errors I'm not convinced by the interview with JDB.

Another interesting part of it was his account of some of his personal views and his opposition to interracial marriage. One could propably discuss for a very long time whether that is racism or not and in which context and to what degree. That opinion alone is enough evidence for me that his thinking was quite erroneus and had absurd consequences. No need to hate him for that. But no need to write it of as unimportant since it at least does smell of racism - though he insisted that was not his intention. It does appear unenlightened to me.

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Re: JDB

Post by curt » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:11 am

I just found this article about Brown searching on google: http://jontrott.com/evangelical-christi ... vid-brown/

Let me know your opinions. Is that really Brown on the picture? If it is...... I don't have words for that...

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Re: JDB

Post by dihigo » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:04 am

As someone who is a big fan of the JDB era of Petra and is in an interracial marriage, this hurts my heart.
What are ya lookin' for the Devil for when ya oughta be lookin' for the Lord?

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Re: JDB

Post by fcollazo » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:48 pm

Once you believe your race is superior, you object interracial marriage, and ridiculously believing that white people are the real Israelites when history and the Bible prophecies confirm the contrary, you've lost me.
God's love hit's me where i live, in my perfect world, because i love the Lord.

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Re: JDB

Post by BriGuyPEI » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:58 pm

brent wrote:He based all of this off of HIS INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE.
I'm not going to wade into the "was he or wasn't he" debate because I don't know him and haven't really delved a whole lot into the backstory. I don't have much interest in doing so. However I will say this in general: there is a big difference between interpreting scripture vs. twisting and manipulating scripture to try to justify your own beliefs.

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Re: JDB

Post by Shell » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:08 pm

Okay, I read the articles, out of curiousity and interest in the story, not to condemn or look for dirt. Although I agree you can't get the whole story from articles on the Internet, it's interesting to hear his side. I don't agree with his views, but it does appear Jonathan was trying to help some misguided kids. He does not actually say he hates other races. I wonder where the person who wrote the article for CCM got their information? It isn't unheard of for the media not to be 100% accurate.

Whatever the case, I'm not going to speculate about whether "he was or wasn't" either since I never met him and don't know all the details behind the FBI investigation. It's not unheard of for law enforcement agencies to have a "take no prisoners" approach when they are investigating.
curt wrote:I just found this article about Brown searching on google: http://jontrott.com/evangelical-christi ... vid-brown/

Let me know your opinions. Is that really Brown on the picture? If it is...... I don't have words for that...
And no, it isn't a clear enough picture to be able to tell whether or not that is him.
Last edited by Shell on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JDB

Post by Shell » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:09 pm

jmslick wrote:It's ludicrous to think that either one of those stories is a full and accurate account of the facts.
But, here is something one can confidently accept as a 100 per cent accurate, undeniable, and irrefutable commentary on human nature:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBOwPORHGU

Good point.

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Re: JDB

Post by curt » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:23 am

I don't feel too convinced he was helping misguided guys. I get the impression he was very misguided himself. The article by Trott is quite detailed and in most cases he does provide evidence though there are cases in which I would wish he had told us where he got his information (e.g. the picture). Anyway there is information elsewhere that such a picture should exist and was used in court. Very, very, very serious. Heiling and using nazi-symbols is about the lowest you can go.

By reading some information on him on this forum I got the impression that the information back when he was imprisoned was quite exaggerated and I was actually happy to get the impression that he wasn't that far off track.

Anyway I have been reading into some of Trotts sources and done my own searching too. Seeing him described as a friend on anti-jewish pages (http://eurofolkradio.com/), seeing his reasons for appealing his case (which does not really paint a picture of a man who did regret) and reading his view on interracial marriage and lots of other facts here or there has changed my view on him.

I agree with those of you who are reluctant to go into the "was he or was he not". There are enough facts and quotes even from his own mouth to determine that his thinking was unhealthy, though we can't determine to what degree and for how long. Anyway, racism or anything that smells like should not be neglected. This is very serious business and not just an interesting different reading by a marthyrinan genius. Whether he did change his mind or did ask for forgivnes at a later stage, I don't know. I'd wish he had been a a lot clearer if he did change his mind.

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Re: JDB

Post by Dan » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:51 pm

jmslick wrote:It's ludicrous to think that either one of those stories is a full and accurate account of the facts.
But, here is something one can confidently accept as a 100 per cent accurate, undeniable, and irrefutable commentary on human nature:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBOwPORHGU
Spot on JMS.

Sometimes this site becomes thejudgementzone.net, I am guilty of that big time... I had recent experience at a David Meece concert a few months ago... I haven't judged a soul since, it ain't my call.

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Re: JDB

Post by sue d. » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:45 pm

Well, it was his own story and he told it the way he remembered it from his point of view. One can take it or leave it...
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Re: JDB

Post by Mountain Man » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:05 am

jmslick wrote:It's ludicrous to think that either one of those stories is a full and accurate account of the facts.
But, here is something one can confidently accept as a 100 per cent accurate, undeniable, and irrefutable commentary on human nature:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBOwPORHGU
I read the interview not so much as a 100% accurate accounting of the facts but more as an insight into JDB's state of mind. He made mistakes; he sinned; but I can't condemn him. As the old evangelist said, but for the grace of God, there go I.

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Re: JDB

Post by curt » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:30 pm

I have been following the writings on JDB on other pages and though I do not search for dirt I keep wondering why so many people simply ignore or regard some of his statements as unimportant. Though one should not look for dirt you should not write of dangerous views as unimportant either. I would keep my own mouth shut regarding this man if it wasn't for the fact that I get worried when people make official statements giving the impression that his views regarding other races were not really important because of what he did as a producer and a musician.

The clearest statement of this kind is found here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/j ... 245/page-2

Someone asks: "Um, he was a white supremacist and a criminal. Why is anyone celebrating this jagoff?" Brad Olsen answers: "Due to his legendary status in Contemporary Christian Music as a producer. His work with Petra says it all."

Statements like that make me feel bad. Working with Petra or whoever is no excuse at all for some of the very serious stuff he got involved in. It even appears he keept being a part of anti-jewish forums long after his imprisonment.

As you can see on this page: http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/newsletters/n286.htm Jonathan David Brown wrote to "Dear Dr. Toben" who was deeply involved in denying the holocaust. The same Toben uses the "Heil Hitler" statement elsewhere on the page. JDB starts his message to a guy with this mindset with the following statement: "I have a Jewish *friend* who sent me these links today, gloating ..." The rest of the mail seems to indicate that JDB believed the holocaust never happened. That this was his (very stupid) view has been told in many contexts. I have checked the e-mail connected to the name of Jonathan David Brown and seen it used elsewhere for purposes that were clearly his. So though one should be reluctant with anything you may find on the internet it sure appears to be that JDB. The http://www.adelaideinstitute.org page is full of sick statements calling the belief in the holocaust a religion and so on.

Not much more than a year ago Racist Report published a list of KKK-members: http://racistreport.org/racist_reports/ ... k-members/

You can search for names in it. Need I say more?

Forgivenes is something completely different than having a history with Petra which "says it all". Whether he did ask for it I do not know. It appears he felt his views were correct from what I have been able to gather.

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Re: JDB

Post by brent » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:20 pm

I have said it before, JDB has a change of mind now.

Someone disputed my comment about JDB believing what he did because of his interpretation of scripture. It is quite simple to understand. The bible itself has numerous examples, like the Apostle Paul for example. Before his conversion, he was a master of the scriptures, killing Christians for God. It is not a stretch that JDB could be equally convinced he was correct, especially being taught his doctrines from childhood.

I would not let any of this bother you too much. After all, he DID seek to live by God's commands and his family and friends are proof of Godly fruit. The music he wrote, mixed and produced was evidence he loved God and that he wanted to please God. The Christian artists at his funeral gave testimony to that fact.

Was he correct in all things all of the time? No. Absolutely not. He scared the helloutofme a couple of times on the phone. But the things that unified us outweighed the things that didn't. When it comes to music, bands, artists and all of that, especially in the CCM industry, you have to live like that to get anything done. No two people agree on everything. The end result is what matters.

In the case of Petra, JDB was the facilitator of the recording sessions. He was not teaching the guys their doctrine. He wasn't writing their music for them. He was the man on the other side of the glass, making the technical magic happen.

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Re: JDB

Post by executioner » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:34 pm

curt wrote:I have been following the writings on JDB on other pages and though I do not search for dirt I keep wondering why so many people simply ignore or regard some of his statements as unimportant. Though one should not look for dirt you should not write of dangerous views as unimportant either. I would keep my own mouth shut regarding this man if it wasn't for the fact that I get worried when people make official statements giving the impression that his views regarding other races were not really important because of what he did as a producer and a musician.

The clearest statement of this kind is found here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/j ... 245/page-2

Someone asks: "Um, he was a white supremacist and a criminal. Why is anyone celebrating this jagoff?" Brad Olsen answers: "Due to his legendary status in Contemporary Christian Music as a producer. His work with Petra says it all."

Statements like that make me feel bad. Working with Petra or whoever is no excuse at all for some of the very serious stuff he got involved in. It even appears he keept being a part of anti-jewish forums long after his imprisonment.

As you can see on this page: http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/newsletters/n286.htm Jonathan David Brown wrote to "Dear Dr. Toben" who was deeply involved in denying the holocaust. The same Toben uses the "Heil Hitler" statement elsewhere on the page. JDB starts his message to a guy with this mindset with the following statement: "I have a Jewish *friend* who sent me these links today, gloating ..." The rest of the mail seems to indicate that JDB believed the holocaust never happened. That this was his (very stupid) view has been told in many contexts. I have checked the e-mail connected to the name of Jonathan David Brown and seen it used elsewhere for purposes that were clearly his. So though one should be reluctant with anything you may find on the internet it sure appears to be that JDB. The http://www.adelaideinstitute.org page is full of sick statements calling the belief in the holocaust a religion and so on.

Not much more than a year ago Racist Report published a list of KKK-members: http://racistreport.org/racist_reports/ ... k-members/

You can search for names in it. Need I say more?

Forgivenes is something completely different than having a history with Petra which "says it all". Whether he did ask for it I do not know. It appears he felt his views were correct from what I have been able to gather.

These things are very disturbing; I have purposely stayed away from this thread when this aspect started to come out due to some of the facts I know because I wanted to let it be in the past. I do not know what JDB was thinking, feeling, or believing about this subject at the time of his death, but pray that he had truly changed.
FORGIVE! FORGET! & LET GO!

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