JDB

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
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Mountain Man
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Re: JDB

Post by Mountain Man » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:23 am

As the saying goes, we judge ourselves on our best day, and everybody else on their worst.

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Re: JDB

Post by superfly » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:52 am

I haven't heard that saying before MountainMan, but I like it! sadly, that saying is too true.

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Re: JDB

Post by curt » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:39 am

"As the saying goes, we judge ourselves on our best day, and everybody else on their worst." Mountain Man

It is quite a paradox that since this quote does apear to be a comment on what I said, you seem to be judging me for judging others. :lol:

Now I don't believe that is your intention but perhaps I should just make it clear that my reason for writing was that I found quite serious evidence that JDB's view were influenced by racism, nazism and the KKK. I have not pointed to any secret facts or anything that he himself has not stated publicly or information that is not available publicly. And part of my reason is that he was not only Petra's producer but also made his own music and wrote down his interepretation of the Bible. Brent wrote: "He read the bible a different way than most of us do. That's it." That is a statement to which I disagre, at least if the point is to neglect the actions he took based on his "different interpretation". Actions that were illegal and harmful.

I have never made any statement whether he changed his mind or not so in that sence I'm not judging. Pointing out what someones official opinion was in a given period in order for them to take that into consideration in their view on whether that person has a valid view on the world or the intepretation of the Bible is not judging. It is just to make official opionions clear and I do not draw the conslusion that he did not change his mind.

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Re: JDB

Post by pmal » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:14 am

Image

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Re: JDB

Post by brent » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:41 am

Curt, you can disagree with me all you want to, but I knew the man. I had conversations with him about his beliefs. His thoughts were based upon scripture alone. He had me scratching my head.

He was also a conspiracy theory guy. There were lots of beliefs that were not deal breakers, all of which were HUGE in his decision to live on a farm, with his own water and food supply.

There are many people and events in history gone wrong, as a result of misinterpreting the bible. There are whole Christian denominations writing off the Jews, forbidding females from wearing pants, cutting their hair, wearing make-up, etc. There are sabbath keepers and sunday attenders, both using verses in the bible for their position. Heck, Paul killed Christians because of his interpretation of the scriptures, and he was a scholarly priest. None of us agree on all things in scripture, or even which scripture we should use. There is no doubt in my mind JDB used the bible to get his beliefs. As I stated before, he certainly doesn't hold to those beliefs now. None of will believe everything we thought we had a handle on once we take our great dirt naps.

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Re: JDB

Post by curt » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:04 pm

Let me quote the man himself:

"Don’t mean to step on toes, but all the hickhack about “species” with regard to those who stand on two legs and speak languages is so much hogwash in light of the prohibition against adulterating God’s original creation and His intent for it. Really, mere animals who can “interbreed” are in our care, and we shall be judged for all of the illegitimate crossing we do with them, who are unable to resist our will. Call them “species” or “mutations.” God did not “mutate” anything. Without going into several pages of proof in scripture against Interracial marriages, let me just say that, although all races of people can create offspring when mixed together, how much more do you think the prohibition against adultery applies to people than mere animals?"

I've taken the quote from here: http://jontrott.com/evangelical-christi ... vid-brown/

I don't think a stament like the above is fairly described by the statement that he read the Bible differently and "that's all". If he read the Bible this way, he was clearly in error. And it does not take away his moral responsibility for stating such an immoral statement or for the crimes he commited and was judged guilty for. So I continue to fail to see the "that's all" statement as valid. And at best it makes no difference whether he based his racist view on scripture. At worst it just makes it worse. Or do you think that a scripture based ideology in which you regard other human beings as animals is better than an equally misguided perception based on something different? The fact that it happened to quite many others (Paul and others) does not make it any less immoral.

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Re: JDB

Post by brent » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:16 pm

I am NOT justifying JDBs beliefs, but you can make the Bible read anyway you want to. His beliefs were relatively unimpactful on the world of Jews. I would be more concerned with Christians and nominally religious people supporting anti-Israeli politics (cough Kerry and Obama cough cough) homosexuality, murdering unborn babies, killing people in the name of God, damaging people mentally and spiritually by commission and omission. I would say all of us do things, or don't do things, daily that affect the world more than JDB's thoughts on Jews.

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Re: JDB

Post by Dan » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:34 pm

brent wrote:I am NOT justifying JDBs beliefs, but you can make the Bible read anyway you want to. His beliefs were relatively unimpactful on the world of Jews. I would be more concerned with Christians and nominally religious people supporting anti-Israeli politics (cough Kerry and Obama cough cough) homosexuality, murdering unborn babies, killing people in the name of God, damaging people mentally and spiritually by commission and omission. I would say all of us do things, or don't do things, daily that affect the world more than JDB's thoughts on Jews.
We really do need a like button. Well said Brent.

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Re: JDB

Post by curt » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:03 pm

Well, the truth is that none of us have any way of knowing what impact JDB has had on people in the anti-jewish associations. Having seen him giving a nazi salute in the company of some very young guys I woldn't rule out the possibility that he has had a very serious impact on the mind state of these guys and others. The fact that I am writing about JDB of course does not imply that I regard this as the most important topic in the world today. If you mean to imply that the same would go for everyone else writing in or reading what goes on in this thread.

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Re: JDB

Post by Mountain Man » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:33 pm

curt wrote:"As the saying goes, we judge ourselves on our best day, and everybody else on their worst." Mountain Man

It is quite a paradox that since this quote does apear to be a comment on what I said, you seem to be judging me for judging others. :lol:
If that's how you wish to take that comment.

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Re: JDB

Post by Dan » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:59 pm

Mountain Man wrote:
curt wrote:"As the saying goes, we judge ourselves on our best day, and everybody else on their worst." Mountain Man

It is quite a paradox that since this quote does apear to be a comment on what I said, you seem to be judging me for judging others. :lol:
If that's how you wish to take that comment.
Mountain man, he's just trolling for a rise out of anyone.

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Re: JDB

Post by fcollazo » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:41 pm

There is no justification for racism ever. The Bible does not prohibit inter racial marriage. Every word or action by white supremacists in this country and anywhere else on earth affects the well being and safety of the chosen people of God- Israel.
God's love hit's me where i live, in my perfect world, because i love the Lord.

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Re: JDB

Post by pmal » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:08 am

fcollazo wrote:There is no justification for racism ever. The Bible does not prohibit inter racial marriage. Every word or action by white supremacists in this country and anywhere else on earth affects the well being and safety of the chosen people of God- Israel.
You are correct in that there is no justification for racism. Not saying you are, but no one needs to kid themselves, though, into thinking this is only a problem for white supremacists. Racism has been alive and well since long before the white supremacist folks were involved.

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Re: JDB

Post by Dan » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:09 pm

"There really is, for humankind there’s really no such thing as race. There’s different tribes but not different races. We’re all one species." - Bill Nye

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Re: JDB

Post by brent » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:30 am

Yep. One race....now run for the prize.

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