JDB

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Re: JDB

Post by Shell » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:09 pm

fcollazo wrote: We are not perfect and we are all sinners and we all should make sure we have all of our business straight with God, of course including me.
I do agree with this; I'm all for making sure we are right before God. However, I think it's important to keep in mind that most of us didn't know JDB personally, and you can't get the big picture from what you might hear in the media. We don't have any way of truly knowing his circumstances, or what action might have been taken to deal with any issues. That would be between JBD and God. I also agree with the idea that sin is not "bigger" or "worse" because someone has to deal with the public.

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Re: JDB

Post by dihigo » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:11 pm

What are ya lookin' for the Devil for when ya oughta be lookin' for the Lord?

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Re: JDB

Post by Shell » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:23 pm

Okay, thanks for the link. It had been so long I didn't remember the circumstances.

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Re: JDB

Post by Mountain Man » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:02 pm

jmslick wrote:JDB was not of this world.

My memories of JDB are of his impish smile, gregarious nature, creative style, and funny slogans. He used to refer to people as "Doctor" or "you genius", etc. About the keyboard part at end of Chameleon, he remarked, "That's where the chameleon died."

JDB was very encouraging to me regarding my playing and synth work. During recording of the three albums which I worked on (the only REAL Petra albums :mrgreen:), he never tried to tell me what to do or not do. He also offered to help me get started in the L.A. music scene. I never discovered how realistic that might have been because I never moved to L.A., but I do think that he would have been a valuable mentor and friend.

In addition to the overall texture of the audio mix, JDB added many subtle creative accents. I've never confirmed this, but I always thought that it was his voice singing the low octave on part of the second verse of NOTW: "we must tarry; with this message we must carry". Maybe it was not him, but it may have been his idea, and I always liked that subtle touch. It was JDB's idea to add the watery effect to the piano hook on MPTYa, and he added the fading echo to the synth track on the ending of Judas' Kiss. Both of those subtle touches added more interest to the element.

I believe it's realistic to say that JDB was as integral to the early 80's Petra sound as any band member.
I love stories like this. I've spent the week listening to the JDB produced Petra albums and just appreciating the musical legacy he left us with.

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Re: JDB

Post by brent » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:14 pm

There were two other heavy weight pastors who started out with Billy Graham. One of them had huge crusades and won many, many people to Christ. Eventually, something happened, and he became an atheist. Does the atheist pastor's change of heart mean all of his work was worthless and without merit? No. People were still won and their lives were changed. Billy Graham remained close with him. They continued to have conversations. Billy never gave up on him.

The whole industry turned it's back on JDB for a while. The industry knew people think like you do fcollazo. Even when the church is commissioned to save, revive, restore, they are the first to turn on their own. But, guys like Bill Gaither began using him again.

Guilt by association doesn't work. How many of you have had a church bus serviced by an alcoholic who beats his wife? Someone has. You going to throw away your bus and the ministry it provides because of that mechanic? No. The music is a vehicle, just like that bus. Not everyone associated with the manufacturing, distribution and sales of that vehicle is or has to be a Christian, or line up with everything the artist believes. The artists aren't going to line up with what you believe, or even the bible itself all of the time. Heck. Petra has had unsaved people playing on records, playing on stage, involved with recording, working as stage hands, etc.

What is important is the purpose of the work. God can use anyone. He uses everything. He even used the people having affairs, steeling money, etc. The artists who JDB produced BEFORE he came to his conclusions READING THE BIBLE cannot be held in contempt for actions they did not ordain or agree with. It doesn't make their work any less impactful.

fcollazo, it sounds like you don't know JDB, and so you don't know how he came to the mind set he had. I do, because he told me, and he gave me the scriptures and historical references for his beliefs. I didn't agree with it. But we had the conversation. The funeral was full of friends from the industry, who all stood up to say the same thing. JDB would love people, no matter if they agreed with him or not. He was a genius, who was a thinker, and enjoyed thoughtful conversations. JDB wanted to have a 19th century farm in the country, live off of the land, not have chemicals in his food, water or toothpaste. He based all of this off of HIS INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE. These were the words of his family, friends and his obituary read by his son Jesse at the funeral.

Look, I don't think we can throw the baby out with the bathwater in this case. I don't think he is the same person with the same views now. He wasn't before he left the planet. He paid his debt to society. I don't doubt for a minute that he isn't with Jesus now and he is probably getting the full disclosure the way we all will, when it is our time. I don't agree with what he did. I can assure you, he doesn't either.

BTW, GXV was at the funeral and sang a hymn. It was great. I thought it was tacky for some to take pics and video, but, this was an unconventional crowd to say the least, because the majority were friends and family from the CCM family and his country church.
Last edited by brent on Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: JDB

Post by Mountain Man » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:16 pm

Of course Wikipedia is not necessarily the most reliable source. Anyway, I can't find the article at the moment, but it seems I read an interview many years ago with Brown saying that he didn't condone what Patton had done, he just saw him as a mixed up kid who he was trying to help out of a jam.

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Re: JDB

Post by Mountain Man » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:20 pm

brent wrote:I don't doubt for a minute that he isn't with Jesus now and he is probably getting the full disclosure the way we all will, when it is our time.
As my theology professor in college used to say, "Some day, God will correct everybody's theology."

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Re: JDB

Post by Shell » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:27 pm

Okay, I read the article. I agree, what he did was wrong, and it appears he did reap the consequences. However, it would have been just as wrong if it had been anyone else. And how can anyone possibly know that he didn't repent of his actions? As I said, repentance is between the person and God.

And yes, I can relate to the Church being quick to turn on its own.

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Re: JDB

Post by fcollazo » Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:16 pm

I agree we can't judge Wether he repented and made amends with God. That's between him and the lord. IT sounds by what Brent says he had some change of heart.
God's love hit's me where i live, in my perfect world, because i love the Lord.

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Re: JDB

Post by jmslick » Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:42 pm

fcollazo wrote:IT sounds by what Brent says he had some change of heart.

In this case, JDB's lucky to have died, so that Christians will no longer have to kill their wounded.

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Re: JDB

Post by jmslick » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:04 pm

More churning on the ancient supposed JDB drama.

Could I tell stories? Absolutely.
Would the stories be accurate and true? Only if you want them to be.
Would the stories be exaggerated and embellished? You'd never know, unless you were there.
Would you feel smug and morally superior? Almost certainly.
Would you relish it? Hell yes.
Are we better or more worthy? Hell no.
Are our own secret lives less tarnished? We'll find out at the bema seat.

I think that Jesus said something about stuff we do in our heart being the same as actually doing it. Maybe someone can verify this archaic notion.

Instead of speculating about JDB's supposed failures, let's all post some of our own.
Then we can create a poll and can rate each other in order of depravity.

:lol:

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Re: JDB

Post by jmslick » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:06 pm

brent wrote: BTW, GXV was at the funeral and sang a hymn.
It was very nice to learn that. Thanks.

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Re: JDB

Post by brent » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:32 am

fcollazo wrote:I agree we can't judge Wether he repented and made amends with God. That's between him and the lord. IT sounds by what Brent says he had some change of heart.
JDB would give the shirt off of his back to help someone in need. That was his downfall in helping this kid years ago. Judging by the testimonies at the funeral, JDB never had a change of heart about that. He had a big heart. He had a fearful respect for God. He was sincere in his faith and ceremony, maintaining Jewish traditions like passover, etc. What I meant at the end of my post was, when JDB's spirit met the comfort of Jesus, he was changed and no matter how right or how good he thought he was, he gets it now. We will all get it now.

There is a difference between doing something wrong because you are sincerely trying to do something good and doing something wrong for the helluvit. How many pastors speed from church on Sunday morning to make it to a guest speaking service at another church Sunday night? How many of us pay more money to a non-profit, not out of the joy of our hearts, but to get out of paying taxes? There are endless examples.

I hope we all learn to dispense the love and forgiveness we hope to receive while laying on our faces, quivering, before God. My mind can't fathom how much I need. This is having an impact on me, as I have an aptitude for writing people off.

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Re: JDB

Post by Shell » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:23 am

jmslick wrote:More churning on the ancient supposed JDB drama.

Instead of speculating about JDB's supposed failures, let's all post some of our own.
Then we can create a poll and can rate each other in order of depravity.

:lol:
Good point. That is part of the reason I said wrong isn't more wrong because someone has to deal with the public. When you've been posting here long enough, you will realize there is a tendency on the part of some of the members to think anyone or anything associated with Petra is supposed to walk on water (and that is meant as a joke by someone who has been posting here for a long time). This thread is actually pretty mild compared to some of the threads we've had here. :mrgreen: 8) :lol:

This did happen a long time ago. I just asked some questions out of curiousity because I couldn't remember all the circumstances, not because I was looking to dig up dirt or bring up someone's past.
Last edited by Shell on Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Shell
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Re: JDB

Post by Shell » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:26 am

brent wrote:
fcollazo wrote:I agree we can't judge Wether he repented and made amends with God. That's between him and the lord. IT sounds by what Brent says he had some change of heart.
There is a difference between doing something wrong because you are sincerely trying to do something good and doing something wrong for the helluvit. How many pastors speed from church on Sunday morning to make it to a guest speaking service at another church Sunday night? How many of us pay more money to a non-profit, not out of the joy of our hearts, but to get out of paying taxes? There are endless examples.
That is a good point. There is a difference between blatant sin and making a bad decision. And Christians do tend to be very slow to forgive each other.

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