Louie BTTS

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Louie BTTS

Post by Rusty » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:04 pm

Hey people, I know this is an old subject, I'm kind of new here...I went thru the archives on all related topics... did Louie play on BTTS?
I know he played on MPTY, and then some post Elefante recordings, but I've never heard anything about BTTS. As a drummer, I think I hear similarities between BTTS and MPTY on certain songs, style/technique-wise. Maybe he played on some songs and not others for "Street"? I also know that when John E. was in Kansas they got pretty creative with different drum recording techniques on Drastic Measures to avoid using e-drums. That might explain the non-acoustic drum sounds....?????
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by leonardo d. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:27 pm

As far as I know, the only studio albums Louie actually got to play on was "More Power To Ya", "The Rock Cries Out", "Wake Up Call", "No Doubt", "Petra Praise 2", "God Fixation", "Double Take", and "Revival". From "Not Of This World" to "Unseen Power" he just did overdubs.
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by Rusty » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:40 am

Thanks for the reply, but Louie did not play on "The Rock cries out"...hence, my asking about BTTS...there is a dearth of mis-information.....
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by Mountain Man » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:02 am

leonardo d. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:27 pm
As far as I know, the only studio albums Louie actually got to play on was "More Power To Ya", "The Rock Cries Out", "Wake Up Call", "No Doubt", "Petra Praise 2", "God Fixation", "Double Take", and "Revival". From "Not Of This World" to "Unseen Power" he just did overdubs.
I didn't realize he was on that many albums. I was always under the impression that Johnathan David Brown used session drummers exclusively, and that every Elefante album used triggers and overdubs that all but erased Louie's actual performance. "Revival", I know, was his most involved album since he recorded everything from the temp track up to the final mix. Kind of ironic that he was fired from the band after its release.

But that's actually him on "More Power To Ya"? Cool. That's always been one of my favorite albums, and it makes it even better to know that. "Wake Up Call" is just a great sounding album, period.

I don't know why producers wouldn't let him play on more albums since he has tremendous technical skill and a machine-like precision. Maybe Brent has some insight.
Rusty wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:40 am
...Louie did not play on "The Rock cries out"...
I find that especially surprising since Bob Hartman and John Lawry were in the driver's seat for that album. You would think if anybody would let Louie play, it would be his own band mates.
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by executioner » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:38 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:40 am
Thanks for the reply, but Louie did not play on "The Rock cries out"...hence, my asking about BTTS...there is a dearth of mis-information.....
Well you are the one that is misinformed; I have inside knowledge that that is Louie on PP1. Louie also had a hand in these following albums
PP1(mostly Louie)
Beyond Belief(limited)
Unseen Power(limited)
Wake Up Call(mostly Louie)
No Doubt(mostly Louie)
PP2(limited)
God Fixation(some, but Kevin Brandow played drums on several of the cuts)
Double Take(some)
Revival(mostly Louie)

Any of the other albums Louie played some type of roll but it was very, very limited.
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by Rusty » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:10 am

when you show up "late to the dance" everyone else is too tired to get up and move.....someone?...anyone??....
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by Rusty » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:04 am

I don't mean to come off rude...I HAVE read all the archived stuff...all of it...on the post / thread titled "I know we've been over this before but..." 4/30/04 (check it yourself) Brent said that Louie and John Lawry told him the only record with NO real drums at all was PPTRCO, that John L. did it all himself with sequencers. The other E. Bros. recordings were sequenced with Louie doing some over-dubs only (most likely cymbals )....however, other posts indicate they may have been using a primitive "80's version" of what is now called "Hit replacement technology"...with Louie's playing being sequenced over.
It's all very confusing....I tend to take Brent's word, since he says explicitly that he got it straight from Louie and John Lawry....
My original question was curiosity that they may not have fully started the whole "Lets sequence the drums " thing on BTTS yet. Compare the drum "sound" on BTTS with TMW and the difference is very obvious.
peace brothers and sisters...peace...
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by BriGuyPEI » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:26 pm

Moving on from Louie for a moment, the thing I've always been curious about is what all did Bob play guitar on during the years he wasn't on the road? Based on liner notes, it looks like he played everything on No Doubt. I'd wager that he likely played most, if not all of PP2, but I have no evidence to back that up. But what about GF and DT? In addition to St. Augustine's Pears, does anybody know what else he played on?
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by Mountain Man » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:31 am

As far as I know, Bob played extensively if not exclusively on every studio album from their self-titled debut up through "Back To The Rock", and of course it's 100% Bob on the three live albums.
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by brent » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:04 pm

This is kind of an old topic, and the older I get, the more I forget what was told to me by Louie, JDB and JL.

Don't think bad of Louie or the producers. There is more to all of this than appears on the surface. There is money, time and creative flow at work here.

Petra was no different than most. Producers want what they want, have production schedules and limited access to band members because of scheduling limitations. In the case of JDB Petra, he was in control of the recording process. He used his bass players and drummers on his Petra records for speed and serenity. NSD and MPTY was not Louie. IIRC, Mark was on all, Louie was on some, of NOTW. By this time, Louie and JDB were playing nice. BTS drums was all Carl Marsh on the Fairlight synthesizer.

The original poster asks a very good question. Louie didn't talk about recording that album, just about John singing that album. It's well documented that the E-Brothers and JL were big into technology, samples, etc. My understanding is, ALL of those albums were sequenced by JL. Louie played over dubs only. That is why he was so happy to do the Weed record. He actually got to play drums on it, where there were drums tracked. I agree with the OP that the acoustic playing does sound like Louie.

i think there is something needing clarification. When songs are written, they are often written with assembled tracks or loops, so the song can have a reference for the other players to do their thing. For instance, guitarists might want a melody first. Bassists want guitars and melody first. Everyone needs a foundation. In the old days, people recorded together. This wasn't the case by the E bros era. Because Louie was an employee, and not an owner, and he did not share in publishing, he was excluded from the writing process. He came in after songs were sorted out. He did not lay the foundational drum tracks. He recorded overdubs, playing the parts played out for him. This was to give the tracks as much of a human feel as they could have, being snapped to the exact tick tock tempo of a sequencer's clock.

JL told me Petra owed a record, didn't have a budget, so they pumped out PPTRCO quickly. JL produced it all. JL and I were discussing analog tape machines, which Apple computers and processors clocked best, etc, etc. While he was making his point, he was referencing this very album, how he had produced all of the drums himself, electronically, and he found some Apples felt better than others. I don't remember today if Louie played at all on that record. JL told me it WAS sequenced and there WAS a drum machine used on most of the tracks.

The rest has been covered. I wouldn't put to much thought into this. This happens all the time. Drummers just are not essential to recording for many people. Many records have very few humans playing on them. Sometimes the people playing are not in the band. You would be shocked at who sucks in the studio because they are difficult to work with, or can't/won't play to a click track in the studio, and doesn't want to record their own stuff because they don't get compensated the same way the others do. Some people are just hired guns who just want to play live. Sometimes it is cheaper and faster to use a core group of musicians, like The Wrecking Crew for example. There are groups like this in LA and Nashville, playing the majority of what it on the country and rock radio/charts.

I was expecting a rock drummer when we picked up Louie for some session work. Rock is about all I heard him play. We assumed he liked what he played in the past. Louie is a pop rock drummer. He has his influences, and they shine through when he is asked to just play patterns he likes. He likes what he likes, and that is what you get. I respect that. Did it work for me? Not always. I needed more rock drumming, so I sliced and diced his tracks to yield the intended results. JDB used to do this with razor blades and tape. I used ProToolsHD. The result was the same. So, I don't fault any of the guys in the past for doing it. It saves a LOT of time, money, nerves and relationships. Plus, it allows the songwriters to make decisions, right up until the last minute, without trashing the whole session.
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by Mountain Man » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:58 pm

I remember reading an interview with Louie talking about one of the Elefante albums (I can't remember which one; maybe "Unseen Power"?) where he was thrilled that they were able to find samples of the brand of drums he played. That always struck me as ironic, because you've got the guy right there, so why not just let him play? I understand all the behind-the-scenes stuff, but still...
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by dihigo » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:18 pm

I always find it humorous when fans say that Louie is the greatest drummer alive. One can listen to Paul Simmons' work on Farewell to quickly distinguish the difference between the two styles.
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by Rusty » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:05 am

Hello again, I think in Brent's response, he may have meant to say Louie didn't play on NSD and NOTW (both of those albums are credited to Keith Edwards), According to JDB, Louie hadn't joined yet for NSD, so Keith E. was used. Louie did play on MPTY but it didn't go well, so on NOTW JDB had Keith come back, and Louie did some percussion type stuff. Guys, I really appreciate the feedback...Blessings to all...
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by Mountain Man » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:33 am

dihigo wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:18 pm
I always find it humorous when fans say that Louie is the greatest drummer alive.
There are fans who say that?
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Re: Louie BTTS

Post by gman » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:21 pm

I liked Paul's work with Petra and what he brought to the songs. However, his timing wasn't always the greatest. One of the shows I was at, they were playing Amazing Grace. They were doing the spot in the middle where Bob would play a couple chords and Paul would solo, and they would alternate. At one point Bob turned and looked at Paul because he was getting out of sync. Nothing really bad. Just an observation that Paul's timing sometimes wavered a bit.
Than again, that wasn't the only time there was a timing problem. I saw them shortly after Lichens joined the band. They played with Whiteheart, before the Salt Box tour was an official thing. I don't know who's fault it was, but during Praying Man, Louie had to stop and restart because the rest of the band had gotten out of sync. He looked really PO'd.
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