I`m sad

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:00 am

BigD, yeah, I'm enjoying it... but not all Canadians see things in the balanced perspective that you seem to have. There is another Canadian here that I get very frustrated with as he can only see the liberal side of things. Please don't take my responses to him personally.

Enosh, you have a great "common-sense" way of putting things that I really like. I agree 100% with what you said.

It's time to stop the America bashing.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:24 pm

LexingtonPethead wrote:
Jerry wrote: Your government got half your country by wiping out the Red man and taking his land and the other half from going to War with Mexico and taking their land. Yeah it's worked for you. Bet you don't see that on Fox.
You know, who really cares? Mexicans have their land (more than they can inhabit), and the indians have reservations and have adapted very well to civilization over the years.

Your point was______?

I don't believe this quote was in reply to anything you posted Massa Lex. So why don't you hurry along or you'll be late for the cross burning.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:35 pm

Guys, let's not start insulting each other. I think David's point, as was mine, was land takeover doesn't really apply to people coming into the U.S. illegally. And I don't think anybody here condones cross burning.

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:03 pm

Jerry wrote:
LexingtonPethead wrote:
Jerry wrote: Your government got half your country by wiping out the Red man and taking his land and the other half from going to War with Mexico and taking their land. Yeah it's worked for you. Bet you don't see that on Fox.
You know, who really cares? Mexicans have their land (more than they can inhabit), and the indians have reservations and have adapted very well to civilization over the years.

Your point was______?
I don't believe this quote was in reply to anything you posted Massa Lex. So why don't you hurry along or you'll be late for the cross burning.

Look, Bud - you're the one who said it. People here can speak up whenever they want. You sound like a liberal to me. The 5th freedom must be for you and no one else. If you won't like the result of a post, then don't post it.

Why don't you go find a tree to hug.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:58 pm

if they are working like any other american and are providing for america`s economy, they deserve health care PERIOD, ilegal or not.

Enosh, you are not paying for their health care. They are not on da streets doing nothing and begging for a dollar. they are WORKING and doing jobs that maybe you would never ever do.

USA government is taking advantage of their "ilegabiliness" for making them work for almost nothing.

"what a great deal!!! we have foreign workers and guess what? we dont have to spend (spend? they are not homeless, they are WORKERS like you) health care, who cares if they die, we can get more from Mï¿½xico, since it doesn`t matter we act this way since they are begging for a job for supporting their families so they will keep coming anyways to work for us".

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:23 pm

Elo, since when did healthcare ever become a right? It isn't a "right". That's up to the employer to decide whether to pay for healthcare benefits. Besides, no employer is ever going to hire an illegal immigrant and report them on their insurance programs - they would be discovered almost immediately, fined and the illegals would be deported.

What you are failing to understand is that Mexican illegals should return to Mexico and migrate to the United States legally. Then, they could qualify for Medicaid or negotiate for the better jobs and benefits you say they deserve. They would also be able to get an American education to qualify for some of these better jobs.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing, Elo.

epdc wrote:USA government is taking advantage of their "ilegabiliness" for making them work for almost nothing.

This is a reckless comment. The government isn't making them work for almost nothing. Mexicans choose to do it COMPLETELY by their own volition. No one is making them stay here. If they don't like what they get illegally, then they should return to Mexico. That's what the new law is designed to encourage.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:45 pm

reality is this david:

if they come back here and try to get in legally, believe me, that`s not gonna happen. people that goes over there ilegally sometimes don`t even know english, some are poor and don`t have any education so what are their chances David of being accepted legally?. Is a very complicated issue. Though I totally understand is wrong they do that, but I also understand that. What would you do if you were on their place David?.

Look guys, I don`t understand that some jobs don`t give you insurance for health care, I know that, is the same here. I`m TOTALLY ok with that, but making a law that says: all inmigrants won`t have right to get health services either public services" is unfair because government still hires them, why they don`t make a law saying "you can`t hire an ilegal person"? and if is that law already exists, why no one does anything for making it be done?" I have never heard about Police checking out bussinesses or talking to employers and put it them in jail for hiring ilegal people, maybe they have had but the employer gives a "bite" (pay for keep doing the same thing and not being arrested) and the police just shuts their mouth.

By the way it seems the USA needs these ilegal workers and found out a great bussiness by taking away the health care and still have them working.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:46 pm

to answer the question about if receiving health care is a right my answer is YES, 1.- is in the Constitution (some groups in Arizona are fighting in court because of it right now) and number 2.- as a human being you deserve health care.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:22 pm

Elo, Elo, Elo...You need to follow some of your own advice muchacha. You're so busy trying to make us americanos see your point of view you can't see our point of view. If you will read the posts again, I think several people have said it is a complicated issue, and companies who hire illegal immigrants should be fined or penalized in some way. The point is, they shouldn't be here in the first place, and it's their decision that they are. Enosh had a good point when he said people don't want to take the time that's needed to get stuff accomplished.

It doesn't say anywhere in our constitution that health insurance is our "right." It is normally something that you get through work, and the reasoning is that a group policy with your job is simpler and more affordable. Not all companies can afford to carry group insurance for their employees, and they're not required to. I'm the first to admit our health care system isn't perfect. The insurance companies are allowed to get away with way too much and they discriminate against people who have preexisting stuff (the individual policies anyway). But that's another whole story.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:05 pm

what I understand of your point of view is that you think is "right" to do that to ilegal ones and I`m not agree with it.

Anyways, changing a little bit the subject, David, is it my imagination of you look more chubby on that pic?????

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:55 pm

You're not required to agree with me, Elo, but what you're not seeing is that they shouldn't be here in the first place.

And pictures add about 10 pounds, give David a break.

epdc · Post by **epdc** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:58 pm

I totally understand that!!!!!! but is a complicated issue you just can`t say "i`ll take you away the health care because you are ilegal" you can`t kick them out either , is complicated you just can`t say "this should be done and that`s it".

i still thinking he looks chubby hahahaha

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:01 am

I agree it's complicated, I think several people have said that.

And David isn't here to defend himself, LOL.

gman · Post by **gman** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:25 am

I don't care for the fact that the term healthcare gets thrown all around when what is really meant is health insurance. Getting healthcare is a right. Everyone should have the right to get medical treatment, and most places in America it an be gotten. Health insurance is not a right. It is for those who have worked hard to, be able to pay for it, or to get a job that provides it for them. Most companies have insurance to pay the bills when someone gets hurt on the job, and if you are going to hire illegals you should pay their medical bills if they get hurt on the job. But, they shouldn't get regular health insurance for free. If they were to get health insurance courtesy of the US Gov't, then yes, I would be paying for it because my tax dollars would be used to cover the cost of their insurance.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:53 am

You're right gman. There is a difference between the two terms. I am getting the medical attention I need, but I don't have insurance. It's actually sort of nice not to have to deal with insurance companies...I have my own issues with them, but that would be getting off the subject.

I could be a lot worse off than I am, the Lord has watched out for me.

The Petra Zone

I`m sad

i won`t talk about this anymore

Re: i won`t talk about this anymore

david

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