MARLINS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:35 am

I have to admit to being one of the people who second guessed McKeon pitching Josh Beckett on short rest, but it worked. Better than anyone could've guessed-a five hit shutout. Makes you wonder how he would've pitched with the full amount of rest.

Andy Petitte pitched well enough to win most of the time, but there's not a pitcher alive who can win with zero run support.

And the Marlins still haven't lost a playoff series.

onnyII · Post by **onnyII** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:40 pm

I saw that game, I know Florida won.... BUT I CAN'T BELIEVE IT YET!!!!

hehehehe....

Congratz!!!!!!

gman · Post by **gman** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:37 am

I would have to say that I think the turning point in the series was Joe Torre's deicision to put Jeff Weaver on the mound in game 4. Granted they were up 2 games to 1, but having fought to get back into that game, it would have been good to win it. They never really got back into it after that. Had they one that game, then they would have had 3 chances to put the series away.
Forget about getting rid of the hitting coach or pitching coach. George should worry about getting some pitchers for the bullpen and fixing the defense. Aaron Boone will recover and be good defensively, but the guys off the bench are subpar. It was that way all year with the becnh guys making defensive mistakes or doing other stupid things. They need to dance with what brung them and keep their core, but get some better bench players and a bullpen.

onnyII · Post by **onnyII** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:49 pm

gman: I agree!!!!!!!

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:31 am

Since we're all being armchair coaches here, I've got a thought for you.

Who would you have put on the mound in game 4, in that situation? Torre had used his other two right-handed middle men at that point (Contreras and Nelson), and the Florida lineup was predominantly right-handed (which would've excluded Heredia and White, although Hammond can pitch to lefties and righties). Rivera was only for a save situation, and Weaver could have pitched for a while-and his first inning was flawless.

Not to mention Gonzalez's home run barely made it over the wall. Yeah, a home run is a home run, but Weaver is hardly the only culprit. Where the heck was Alfonso Soriano all series? Why were Jeter, Williams, and Matsui the only Yankees to produce consistently on offense? Why was Rivera the only reliever Torre trusted (I'm a big Chris Hammond fan, myself) ? And how much does Andy Pettite need to do before the Yankees come to their senses and try to resign him?

Some bounces went the Yankees way, and some went against them. Ultimately, it's where the last bounce goes, and it went against the Yankees. Oh well. Better luck next year

bakersfieldpethead · Post by **bakersfieldpethead** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:09 am

Well

I will say I'm not surprised but.....however I wanted the Yankees to take this one because of Roger. And also, I just love seeing the Yankees win.............I also am trying to make as many posts as I can in order to reclame the lead in this triple digit club.......lol

Thank You all

And better luck next year, but I'm hoping for the Dodgers to finaly return to the Wolrd Series next year.......as I do every year

spottacus · Post by **spottacus** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:24 am

At least the Yankees didn't win.

Funny, big dumb George has chased away Zimmer and probably Stottlemyer, and speculation is Bernie Williams will be gone next year after batting .400 in the World Series, because he's too old. Torre's job is in jeopardy and big dumb George is pointing at all the ballplayers on other teams and talking about signing them as free agents...

...does this remind anyone else of the early '80s? Remember how many World Series the Yanks won between '80 and '90?

gman · Post by **gman** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:03 pm

That type of talk reminds me very much of the 80s. They were fortunate in that Joe T. won the world series in his first year there and thus got a little more patience in the following years. They developed a solid core and have not strayed too far from that. So many other teams, like the red sox, are constantly pulling the plug on managers, staff, and players, looking for an instant fix and it gets them no where. Perhaps if Joe T. had not been successful in his first year,.he too would have been ousted. Given George's near zero tolerance policy, one just might have to believe in some kind of Yankee magic for them to have done so well.
Going back to game 4, in hindsight we can obviously see that it was a must win game as it changed the whole series. In light of that, perhapsit would have been best to use Mariano to try and hold it for a couple innings and score a run or two. Right now Jeff Weaver is not Jose, Felix, Chris, or anyone else on the pitching staff, and more than one inning was definitely pushing it. I say they should have pulled Jeff and sent someone else out there and continued to mix it up from there, going with Mariano at the first sign of real trouble or after getting the lead. And by all means, don't throw home run pitches when you don't have the stuff to get away with it.
The Yanksees need better defense for next year. If they are going to pull Boone or anyone else, they need some guys off the bench who can play better defense. Bottom Line: Some bad defense got them into trouble and they couldn't recover because thier bullpen was poor and they were forced into playing catchup. They blew out the Marlin offensively in games 2 and 3, and could have done so in 4 and 5, but bad defense and relief pitching gave the Marlins life. The Yankees had a better pitching rotation and starting lineup, they had more experience and more offensive prowess, but they allowed their underbelly to be exposed and the Marlins fired their harpoon and struck the fatal blow.

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:08 am

I'm not sure I agree with that-there was no real signs of trouble, it was one pitch that barely cleared the fence. It's not like Weaver had the bases loaded or anything. Hindsight is always 20/20, but being in Torre's shoes I would not have gone to Rivera in a tie game-regardless of his outstanding playoff performance, two innings for every appearance for a closer is taxing his limits. There's no guarantee the Yankees would have won in two innings-and Torre needed to save Rivera for when they had a lead, not when they were trying to get one (unless it's really desparation time, ala game 6-not when they're up 2-1 in the series).

I mean, I wouldn't have gone to Weaver either, but it was a gamble I think may have been worth taking with 2-1 series lead-he can pitch for as long as you need him to (being a starter who hasn't pitched in a while and likely wouldn't be called upon again whether they won or lost), and if he hold the lead his confidence goes up so you can use him again if you need him. If you lose, the series is tied and you didn't waste your best pitcher in a hopeless cause (Rivera), and you don't lose anything with Weaver.

You only use all your bullets when you're trying to stay alive, and the Yankees were in the lead at that point in time. One bad pitch does not a blown series make (although several bad decisions do, a la Grady Little). Game 6 was the must win for the Yankees-let's get that straight.

Torre's not the greatest manager, either-it's really hard to be considered a good one when you have the best talent money can buy, and it'd be interesting to see how well he'd coach a lesser team.

gman · Post by **gman** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:13 pm

Haven't they always had the best players money can buy? Or at least the highest payroll? Before Joe Torre they were not getting much return on their investments. New York is a tough animal to tame and I'd say Joe has gotten a good handle on it.
He made some tough decisions this time around, ones that may have been good in the past, but he just didn't have the players. When they won 3 years in a row, they were good in all areas. Their bullpen, bench, and core players were all solid. There was very little room for error. This time around they had some trouble spots and the Marlins took advantage,

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:01 pm

I think McKeon had a little help. Nudge nudge wink wink.

http://sports.tbo.com/sports/MGAJ4TAQ5MD.html

bakersfieldpethead · Post by **bakersfieldpethead** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:05 am

Nevermind that

I'm starting early......Dodgers 04, Dogers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dogers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dogers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04, Dodgers 04!

I'm Black & Blue baby
Dodgers & Raiders all the way

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:24 pm

Bad time to be a Raiders fan-they're getting shell-hacked this year.

bakersfieldpethead · Post by **bakersfieldpethead** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:23 am

As the saying goes

"Win, Lose or tie - I'm a Raider till I Die"

It's never a bad time to be a Raider. I look at it this way. Our guys had a good run the last few years. But like all teams you have your good years and bad years. Now I remember before these last few years when people used to say "Raiders? Superbowl? Never happen!" But they made it, they didn't win it.....but they made it. I'll always be a loyal fan!

The Petra Zone

MARLINS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MARLINS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

turning point

.............

well yes

Joe T.

.............

Raiders all the way

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