The Petra Zone

Here's a message I recently posted in an atheist-infested board to get their reaction. It may strengthen some of your faith. Could even start a flamewar here, because a few Christians downplay the significance, but hopefully not. In any case, it's really interesting!

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Ok guys. You want proof that the Bible is the Word of God? Here it is, listen up.

Background: God repeatedly told the ancient Israelites that if they disobeyed His law, they would be driven out of their promised land. But not permanently. Indeed that happened.

In spring or summer of the year 606 BC (verified historically), Israel lost its independence and the first deportation to Babylon occurred. The prophets predicted that this deportation would last 70 years, and indeed that was the case. A prophetic year in the Bible is always 360 days, not 365.25. 70 prophetic years/69.0 calendar years later, in 537 BC, Israel was allowed to return to their land. But some Israelites decided to stay in Babylon because they enjoyed the pagan life there.

In Ezekiel 4:3-6, it is clearly pointed out that Israel's punishment for this would be 430 years of captivity. The original 70 years were included in this, so we have 360 prophetic years left. Indeed, in the second century BC, Jews had more independence than normal, if not a full-blown kingdom. But, alas, they did not repent and return to God.

In Leviticus 26 verses 18, 21, 24, and 28, it is pointed out that the punishment for any continued disobedience would be multiplied by seven. If you take the 360 years that most of the Israelites were punished for continuing to live in their sin and multiply it by seven, you get 2520 prophetic years, or 907,200 days, or almost 2484 calendar years.

If we add 2484 calendar years to 537 BC, taking into account that there is no year zero, we end up with 1948.

Question for the history gurus: Do we know what happened in the spring of 1948?

Right -- Israel became a nation again, thus ending the number of years of captivity that Ezekiel prophecied -- right down to the season (spring)!

References:
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_4_3.htm

http://yfiles.com/y3nf.html
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/jerusalem.html (a follow up which aims to fix a perceived error in the above link)

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Interestingly, no one really refuted it. Their worst come-back was that the numbers are "fuzzy" but they really are not fuzzy at all. They come from the plain meaning of Scripture and there's very little room to manipulate them to get any arbitrary date.

Hehe... that's pretty good. How positive are we about the dating of these events? I mean, the prophed Jeremiah didn't write in his diary "Monday, December 5, 421 B.C. Today such and such happened..." because B.C. wasn't B.C. until long after that. What's the scholarship on the dating? Is it pretty much agreed on by most or all scholars, or is it up for debate in some circles, or what?

That is all very cool. The birth of Israel and the recapture of Jerusalem both very accurately fulfilled.
And did you catch the part in that second link that relates to Palm Sunday? It fits to the DAY. Proof to all your Jewish friends that Jesus is the Messiah!

WOW, I mean, I love to hear facts like that.

Have you guys read 301 amazing proves and phropecies: evidence of God`s existence?

it shows you scientific facts that prove that what the Bible says is true. Is perfect for people that are all logic.

Regarding the start date of 606 BC, I'm relying on the links. People seem fairly sure of that, but I don't think it's unanimous. I have a study Bible that puts that date at 605BC. If that date is correct, the whole thing could be a year off. But, is a year out of over 2500 very significant? Hmmm. But, since history says it happened about that time, we can probably use this prophecy to "count backwards" and say it happened in 606.

Yes, the first 69 "weeks" of Daniel 9 do apparently point right to Palm Sunday. It's hard to believe that the Jews can ignore stuff like that.

Elo: No, haven't heard of that book. I'd like to see it though!

I've recently become a fan of the show "Reasons to Believe" where Christian astronomer Hugh Ross talks about the design of the universe and how improbable it is that we could exist. Unfortunately, TBN shows it in the middle of the night and I don't have a VCR. Fortunately, my sleep schedule is so wacked up that they show it before I go to bed.

OK,the correct name is "301 startling proofs and prophecies."
1996, peter and paul lalonde

Yeah, I watch that show on TBN, He really proves that we can't be here just by chance.

He also proved that the Grand Canyon in AZ was caused by the great flood.

I think he's been following the story and all the information on Noaha's Ark as well.

bakersfieldpethead wrote:Yeah, I watch that show on TBN, He really proves that we can't be here just by chance.

He also proved that the Grand Canyon in AZ was caused by the great flood.

I think he's been following the story and all the information on Noaha's Ark as well.

Hmm, you might be thinking of someone else. Hugh Ross actually is an old-earth creationist and teaches that the flood was local to the middle east region.

I've recently come to agree with the old earth creationist viewpoint (NOT the same as theistic evolution), but I'm undecided on a local or global flood. The Bible text certainly seems to indicate a global flood, but there are ways to interpret it as a local flood. It's all about which viewpoint the Biblical text is taken from.

there are proofs that once the whole earth was full of water like a flood, many cultures and religions have a global flood in their story.

"Old-earth creationist?" Do tell us what that means.

to who are you talking to and what are you talking about?

Old Earth Creationism is a way of viewing the creation story as fairly literal but not in six 24 hour days. It accepts the scientific explanations for the universe's origin -- the Big Bang theory, etc.

It also accepts the scientific/evolution timetable for the development of life. The main difference is that it does not actually accept evolution. God "progressively created" different species at different times in the earth's history.

The view is well advocated by:
http://reasons.org
http://answersincreation.org

And here's an article that walks through the Creation story from an OEC perspective. It's amazing how well Genesis 1 matches science, given how long ago it was written. (Well, OK, it shouldn't be amazing since we know where it came from...)
http://yfiles.com/Biblical-creation.htm

I think it makes a lot of sense because it takes science seriously, takes the Bible seriously, and explains why there are not many evolutionary "missing links".

I'm absolutely not convinced by this exegesis.

It is not said in Ezekiel 4 that the total punishment for Israel would be 430 years. What is said is this: Ezekiel has to lie on his left side for 390 days for the sins of Israel (i.e. the Northern Kingdom of the ten tribes). The 390 days correspond to 390 years of disobedience of the Northern Kingdom. Then Ezekiel is told to lie on het right side for 40 days for the sins of Judah (i.e. the Southern Kingdom of Judah and Benjamin). The 40 days correspond to 40 years of disobedience of Judah.

History tells us that the Northern Kingdom (Israel) was deported by the Assyrians in the 8th century BC. Judah was deported in different stages between 606 BC and 586 BC.

I think there is no clue in the text of Ezekiel 4 to justify the conclusion that Israel would have to be punished for 430 years. If you see one, please tell me. Ezekiel is lying on his side as a sign for the past disobedience of Israel and Judah, not as a sign of their future punishment.

I'm looking forward to hearing solid biblical arguments for your view.

Hmm, that's interesting. You could actually be right.

Still, it's kind of hard to believe that this works out so well if it isn't prophetic.

A lot of prophecy concerning the restoration of Israel includes a spiritual restoration. We did not see that in 1948, we only saw the establishment of a nation. The purpose of the tribulation is for the spiritual restoration of Israel. If is Israel was set aside, as Paul talks about, because they rejected Christ as Messiah, and the body of Christ was formed, how much of Old Testament prophecy really applies to current times. If it was spoken to and about Israel, and God is waiting until the tribulation to begin dealing with them again, some would conclude that prophecy concerning Israel that has not been fulfilled yet will be fulfilled at that time. I.e. the prophetic clock is on hold. At the very least some would question whether a simple establishment pf a nation fits with all of prophecy. A revival within judaism would not qualify as a spiritual restoration since the practices of the old testament are no longer the way in which God is dealing with mankind.
Just some thoughts. I like the idea of Israel becoming a nation in 9148 being a fulfillment of prophecy, but all the numbers stuff seems to be a bit of a stretch.