Josh Mcdowell

PetFCtr · Post by **PetFCtr** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:37 pm

I was viewing some video clips and saw an mbuzz segmen where John was talking about a tour in which Josh Mcdowell was a part of one of the tour stops. I know this happened years ago but found out some shaky information about Josh Mcdowell.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exp ... eneral.htm

I understand you can find just about all the negative and positive about someone on the internet. Whether it be mud slinging, trash, rumors or so fourth. Was just wondering why Petra would associate themselves, mainly John and Bob with the man knowing the information thats on this website. Thats if the website is trueful and not someone just trying to trash Josh. Again I know Petras involvement with him was many many years ago...

Can anyone hear shed some light on this..One way or another.

In Christ

Rich

pmal · Post by **pmal** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:51 pm

Josh is an extremely well respected author and speaker in the Christian scene. He wrote "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" among other titles that defend the Bible against all kinds of attacks. He has a wonderful testimony and is a man who went out of his way to disprove the Bible when he was younger and wound up being convinced that the Bible was true based on that research. I can't imagine any one talking bad about Josh unless they are just out to get him and would STRONGLY consider the source of those claims against him and be wary of anything else that they might say. I understand people change but I would tend to give him more the benefit of the doubt. Of all the things Petra has associated with over the years, I'm positive that Petra is very happy with the time spent on tour with Josh. In fact, Josh even took some heat for touring with Petra at the time and his touring with Petra gave them credibility in the Christian scene with those who were ultra conservative and probably helped them reach for more people with the gospel ...

Your friend in Christ,
Phillip

Edward · Post by **Edward** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:57 pm

Ok, you need to take websites with a grain of....well, I would say salt, but it would take something else more potent.

This particular site bashes anyone that is not a legalistic fundamentalist, that believes that God inspired the KJV word for word.

Josh has a sterling ministry.

pmal · Post by **pmal** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:01 am

Ok, now, I see this web site is the same one that claim CCM is devil music.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/

I gotcha. Whoever runs that site has serious problems and must live inside their drivers' license ... The first red flag is they only believe that the King James Version of the Bible is the only true Bible, meanwhile no matter that the NIV and NASB each are translated from a stronger version of the original Greek language manuscripts. Oh man, dont get me started ...

hehe

Petra_Pete · Post by **Petra_Pete** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:21 am

pmal wrote: ...meanwhile no matter that the NIV and NASB each are translated from a stronger version of the original Greek language manuscripts. Oh man, dont get me started ...

Not to get you started, but technically the KJV is a word-for-word translation as is the NASV while the NIV is a dynamic equvilent translation. However, you are correct in saying that the NIV is using more reliable manuscripts. I know a bit of greek and following along in my Greek NT while the pastor reads the NIV, I am increasingly frustrated with the NIV (word order, word choice, adding words to clarity in translation, those sort of things). But it is still better than a paraphrase. When I've been asked which is the better of Bible translations out there, I've responded by saying, "The one you're reading."

greenchili · Post by **greenchili** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:13 pm

I've read alot of different translations and oddly enough KJV is the only one that makes sense to me. As for this "only true bible" stuff. Best thing is to learn greek if you want a 100% perfect understanding. Even KJV is subject to a few translation "idiosynchrancies".

As for Josh McDowell he is fine and highly thought of amongst the christian community. Although I personally think some of the stuff he says is off, it all really boils down to personal opinion.

Anyways if you read any petra related interviews concerning their time with Josh you will see that they had a very positive experience and that many lives were converted for Christ. Oh, and apparently they learned alot about youth from Josh.

Epyon5757 · Post by **Epyon5757** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:24 pm

greenchili wrote: Best thing is to learn greek if you want a 100% perfect understanding. Even KJV is subject to a few translation "idiosynchrancies".

I took biblical greek during my final year of college to fulfill the foreign language requirement (and my father, a Ph.D., even teaches biblical greek...but at a different university)...but even knowing the language doesn't mean that your translation will be 100% accurate...everyone is going to read the passage(s) differently, parse the subjects and verbs differently and therefore interpret them differently when translating from Greek to English. Shoot, people even have trouble reading their own language - how many things in straight english (or the language of your choice) do you read differently than the person who sits next to you?

The people who write that website appear to be nothing but a pack of rabid dogs trying to attack anything they don't like or don't agree with...which is ironically not part of the definition of being a Christian...where does the Bible say we can attack anything we don't like or don't agree with (religiously speaking), anyway?

greenchili · Post by **greenchili** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:18 pm

Yeah. Seems alot of christians get caught in what I call "Old Testament mode" and seem to forget the grace and forgiveness that saved us from ourselves.

Petra_Pete · Post by **Petra_Pete** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:27 pm

greenchili wrote:Yeah. Seems alot of christians get caught in what I call "Old Testament mode" and seem to forget the grace and forgiveness that saved us from ourselves.

Plus they forget that "grace and forgiveness" was in the OT too.

charl · Post by **charl** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:50 pm

According to BDM, the list of heretics is long and varied:

Damnable Blasphemers all!!

I love the juxtaposition of this list. Like...Kenneth Copeland we all know is a heretic, but Martin Luther? Read them only for a laugh.

executioner · Post by **executioner** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:34 am

Boy these people even bash Billy Graham! I'm sorry but I think self-esteem is probably one of the most important things that teens deal with, and I know I needed that concert tour in 1991(where he tour w/Petra) to knock some sense into my head, because before that I hated myself and had some real strong bouts with depression and him speaking at that concert God used that to speak to me.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:04 am

Oh, please, that list is so totally ridiculous; where are they coming up with that? Sure, you shouldn't take what these people say as the final word or anything, but a lot of those people, particularly Kay Arthur, Max Lucado and Frank Peretti, have given me some good insight into biblical principles. They should read what the Bible has to say about being judgmental and self-righteous. According to them, these people aren't supposed to be human.

They even have Mother Teresa on there for crying out loud. You're right Charl, it is good for a laugh.

Edward · Post by **Edward** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:20 am

charl wrote:According to BDM, the list of heretics is long and varied:

Damnable Blasphemers all!!

I love the juxtaposition of this list. Like...Kenneth Copeland we all know is a heretic, but Martin Luther? Read them only for a laugh.

I think that Dopeland's errors could be just as dangerous as the narrow minded KJV-only, far right fundamentalists that operate that site. Both take the bible out of context via ultra literal interpretation. Very dangerous. We should read everything understanding the political and social climate of those days, in those cultures. It is mind bending at times.

PetFCtr · Post by **PetFCtr** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:43 pm

executioner wrote:Boy these people even bash Billy Graham!

Billy Graham is not cool...The man says all religions lead to heaven, buddhism, hinduism, islam. Thats just crazy.

Theres only one way to heaven a narrow way through Jesus. Bill Graham and the like try and preach a wider way...

Epyon5757 · Post by **Epyon5757** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:55 pm

PetFCtr wrote:Billy Graham is not cool...The man says all religions lead to heaven, buddhism, hinduism, islam. Thats just crazy.

Theres only one way to heaven a narrow way through Jesus. Bill Graham and the like try and preach a wider way...

Can you point to a specific, documented statement where Billy Graham has EVER said something to this effect? I wrote a research paper on the guy for one of my religion courses in college, I went through numerous speech transcripts, papers, and other documents that he wrote, and NOT ONCE did anything that he ever said, did, or wrote points to that effect.

The article posted at the beginning of this thread calls people like Pat Robertson a "liberal."

I don't like Pat Robertson; I think he's an idiot who needs to learn to keep his mouth shut, actually - but when you call Pat Robertson, who is widely considered to be ultra-conservative and off the mainstream anyway - even by conservative Christians - a "liberal," that only shows just how much further off even the conservative Christian track the person who wrote this article really is. I will be happy to continue a debate like this in a private forum; send me an e-mail.

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