The Zone has changed

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brent
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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by brent » Wed May 14, 2014 5:44 am

Well, that is a bit out of context. He could fix the environment, but he cursed it because of the fall. He will burn it ultimately and kill the majority of the inhabitants. So, there is no use trying to undo what has already been predestined. All we can do is be good stewards with his property and responsibilities entrusted to us.

Science is a religion and it's doctrines are politically driven. Science can be made to show anything but the truth and people will be scared and buy in. Until global warming and Obama, I thought the world was too smart for an antichrist. Now I know the time is right.

BTW, when I was a kid, they said global freezing was coming and we would be in an ice age by now. Tards.

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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by executioner » Wed May 14, 2014 7:40 am

brent wrote:Well, that is a bit out of context. He could fix the environment, but he cursed it because of the fall. He will burn it ultimately and kill the majority of the inhabitants. So, there is no use trying to undo what has already been predestined. All we can do is be good stewards with his property and responsibilities entrusted to us.

Science is a religion and it's doctrines are politically driven. Science can be made to show anything but the truth and people will be scared and buy in. Until global warming and Obama, I thought the world was too smart for an antichrist. Now I know the time is right.

BTW, when I was a kid, they said global freezing was coming and we would be in an ice age by now. Tards.

I think we are close to the time of the Antichrist also; it wouldn't surprise if he is already alive & well. I remember as a kid being taught in school about the ice caps and how they will eventually convert Earth into some type of ice age 2030. We have 16 years to go, it could still happen.
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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by fiendik » Wed May 14, 2014 4:54 pm

Well, yeah, I'm just saying that we probably aren't having such a strong affect on the earth as we tend to think we are. I personally don't think the earth is going to ice over, but that's just me.
I might also have a different view of the end-times, and the antichrist may not be as we expect him. Please don't think I'm one of those who say the earth is "heaven" already (it's obviously not). The earth as we see it now is doomed to divine destruction. And I'm willing to admit that this earth may not last until 2016; we could be living in the end now. But Christ could wait until 2100 to return... we can't know the day.
I do think "Perfect World" had a good point on this...God rules this world and the next, and "our hopeless band-aids are all counterfeit". Even if scientists say the sun will burn out (or any such thing), God could still prevent it.
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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by brent » Thu May 15, 2014 11:05 am

Actually, this is one of the most misquoted things that Jesus said. Jesus was asked three questions, not just one.

We do not know when the Son will return. Jesus said HE did not know. The great taking away cannot be predicted. We can know the end of the age. Jesus said we will have signs to look for and those that remain will in fact be able to know that the end. The two events are not one in the same and Jesus was not talking out of his rear.

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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by fiendik » Thu May 15, 2014 3:49 pm

Okay, well I'm not really into the rapture stuff, I think Jesus will return once and that's the end. I'm sure that we have different views on this; it's very difficult stuff to understand and I'm not exactly sure what all my views are yet. It seems to me that those who "look for the signs of the end" usually get into a lot of loopy stuff, and I don't really see the point myself. We should live the same way anyway, because God can always see us, and we certainly never know when our end may be.
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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by brent » Thu May 15, 2014 4:20 pm

The great taking away as described in the bible does not have to mean Jesus returns two times. The bible never says the rapture has anything in common with Jesus putting his foot on earth. We meet him somewhere up there. They used "in the clouds". People used that interchangeably with "heaven".

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18

14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

This is about the return to earth:

Revelation 19:14
The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

Nowhere in the bible does it say we are meeting Jesus in the air with the armies from heaven, to immediately return to earth and set foot in Israel, or as the Mormons believe, Independence Missouri.

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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by Mountain Man » Fri May 16, 2014 11:33 am

There's also partial preterism to consider.

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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by fiendik » Sat May 17, 2014 12:51 pm

I still don't see as this necessitates two events; It just sounds to me like different aspects of the same event, taking place at approximately the same time.

I'm going to do more study on this; For now I still hold that there won't be a rapture, and that the Christians must remain on earth until the final return of Christ. A couple other things to note: I'm of the opinion that Israel (the "circumcised of the heart") refers not the nation of Israel exclusively, but to the people of God. Thus references to "Israel" could also refer to the Christian church, and as the OT nation of Israel believed in Jesus for salvation, this isn't a real change. Also, much prophesy is figurative, and thus must be treated carefully.

I plan to get back to this after some more research.
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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by brent » Sun May 18, 2014 7:22 pm

Believers are "not appointed to wrath". God's "judgement of the nations" does not include believers. Nations are never one in the same with the church. The church or "God's people" can live in nations blessed and cursed by God. If you read the Bible, God's chosen were ALWAYS given a way out before being conquered, ravaged, taken into slavery, etc. Jesus is our way of the pending judgement of the nations.

Jesus was asked three questions and the bible gives record of three answers, not one answer for all events.

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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by fiendik » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:11 pm

Okay, I've looked around, and here's what I've found.

Apparently I'm what they call a Post-millennialist; meaning that I believe that the millennium is the time leading up to Christ's second coming, usually said to start at His first coming. I don't believe in a rapture; I agree with one theologian who stated that it was a "goofy idea". Nowhere in the Bible is the modern idea of a rapture stated or implied, but rather this concept was created primarily for its sensationality by people who didn't have a good idea of what the Bible actually said. Also, that God's people are not appointed to wrath does not mean they won't see it, but rather they themselves won't be judged. For example, the Israelites were in Egypt at the time of the plagues, and yet they did not suffer the plagues themselves. Thus we don't need to be raptured in order to not be judged with "the nations." I've read Revelation, and it seems very confusing indeed. Some people, even ones I generally agree with, go too far into declaring what exactly will happen, such as stating that the new earth will look just like the old, and yet perfect. We don't really know that, and I don't claim to know that much, so I'll just say that whatever does happen, we have our orders and need to do them, whether Jesus returns today, tomorrow, or 100 years after I'm dead. Just keep on track and serve God, and all will be well. I don't know what Christ's return will be like, and I don't know if the new earth will be made from the old, like the old, or unlike anything before, but I do know one thing: It's gonna be good.

Anyway, you guys can go back to your deep discussion on Obama now; my eschatological rant is over.
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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by brent » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:20 pm

The Trinity was not really found in the bible either.
All people living before the Roman Empire did not know what crucifixions were, because they did not exist before then.
People in the bible could not understand or realize the Nation of Israel. It did happen.
People in the OT could not understand many of the concepts we understand for them, because even things written in the NT were not written for them, just those from that time forward.

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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by fiendik » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:28 pm

The Trinity is necessary, the rapture is not.
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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by brent » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:31 pm

Actually, the great gathering unto himself IS, because Jesus taught it. No great gathering with people left behind makes Jesus a liar. The great taking away and his return to earth are two different events. Notice the bible never alludes to the great gathering from the four corners of the earth to Jerusalem with Jesus on the ground.

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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by fiendik » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:53 pm

I'm totally confused...
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Re: The Zone has changed

Post by brent » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:11 am

This should clear it all up. There are differences between the rapture (the great gathering unto Himself) and the second coming when Jesus returns to earth. There is a difference in who gathers the people and a difference in who is gathered in both events. Saying one is not essential or both are the same takes away from the Hope that lies within us or the judgement to come. If it's in the bible, it is essential.

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