The Petra Zone

If you knew an artist making music for Christian consumption was gay, an addict of some type, etc, would you buy their stuff? Have you thrown away CDs, after learning an artist had these issues, or did you keep them? Does the music still appeal to you?

When I was younger I'd toss albums, but not anymore. If the music is good and reaches out to me I keep it. If the person in quetion rapes another person or is a pedophile then they are probably off my playlist. Divorce, drugs, cursing? Well, those aren't cause to dump the music anymore. Murder is another no no. Wow, I didn't realize I was so rigid still.

All the more reason to buy their music!!

I believe the immensity of grace can only be understood by people who have realized they have fallen deep. It is more honest to admit you are struggling with something and then try to look at things through the light of grace, than having a fine appearance with no depth.

I do have a problem with people claiming to be Christians and then blatantly living an ungodly life, and I don't mean occasionally messing up. We all do that; if that wasn't the case we wouldn't need Jesus. The key there is turning from wrong and striving to live the way the Bible instructs us.

I don't have a problem with people's testimony about how God has delivered them, so long as they aren't out behaving that way any longer.

The entertainment industry for the most part does not claim to be following the Bible, and that helps me keep things in perspective. Of course an industry that isn't following Biblical principles is going to be messed up.

p-freak wrote:All the more reason to buy their music!!

I believe the immensity of grace can only be understood by people who have realized they have fallen deep. It is more honest to admit you are struggling with something and then try to look at things through the light of grace, than having a fine appearance with no depth.

Of course, we must recognize the difference between "I've fallen deep, but thanks to Jesus, I'm now out of that, and I'm now trying to live my life by God's standards." and "I've fallen deep, and it's sure a barrel of fun! Why don't yall come an' join me?" There are those who have been forgiven much, and therefore love much, but there are also those who do not love at all. "If you love Me, keep My commandments." This was the Biblical message. A truly Christian artist will want to obey the law of God out of love for Him. If they purposely try to "sin that grace may abound", it doesn't show a true Christian image. Some artists have some problems that are too heinous to be anyone I want associated with. I don't want music made by a murderer or a rapist. I also don't want to promote music made by someone who actively supports any sin. (e.g. Jars of Clay) But those who have sinned and repented are good. It's all about the motives and the message.

fiendik wrote:I also don't want to promote music made by someone who actively supports any sin. (e.g. Jars of Clay).

Please explain.

I don't know about Jars of Clay, but there are many others who are pro gay, addicted to booze, drugs (in one case, all in the same band). We wouldn't tolerate it in our churches. Why would we tolerate it in our Christian music?

Edlastic wrote:I don't know about Jars of Clay, but there are many others who are pro gay, addicted to booze, drugs (in one case, all in the same band). We wouldn't tolerate it in our churches. Why would we tolerate it in our Christian music?

Good point.

p-freak wrote:

fiendik wrote:I also don't want to promote music made by someone who actively supports any sin. (e.g. Jars of Clay).

Please explain.

Not sure what his specifics are on Jars of Clay, but I use to be a fan back in the 90's.
I went and saw them in Houston at 2 shows, one at a church and the next night at a club and it was like seeing 2 different bands. Several songs with upfront Christian lyrics were lyrically changed and basically put love where Jesus was in the lyrics; there was foul language(especially from the guitarist) towards female body parts, plus the same guitarist was clearly loaded on something. I left after about 30 minutes with disgust and if I didn't know any better I would have never known them to proclaim Christianity.

executioner wrote:Not sure what his specifics are on Jars of Clay, but I use to be a fan back in the 90's.
I went and saw them in Houston at 2 shows, one at a church and the next night at a club and it was like seeing 2 different bands. Several songs with upfront Christian lyrics were lyrically changed and basically put love where Jesus was in the lyrics; there was foul language(especially from the guitarist) towards female body parts, plus the same guitarist was clearly loaded on something. I left after about 30 minutes with disgust and if I didn't know any better I would have never known them to proclaim Christianity.

I've been following them closely for years now and what you describe seems quite uncharacteristic. They don't have a lot of songs with upfront Christian lyrics, but deeper content that is clearly Christian without using the obligatory terminology. Listen to All Star United's Song Of The Year and you'll know what I mean. I've never heard of them changing their songs and even if they would, nothing wrong with that. Do you remember who that specific guitarist was?

Fiendik, I'd still like to hear why you mentioned Jars Of Clay. Dan Haseltine is known for speaking out in a way that will sometimes provoke strict evangelicals, but they are not condoning, supporting or living ungodly lifestyles.

Yeah longtime member(maybe even original) Mason, don't remember his first name.

There was just a big stir recently that the leader of Jars of Clay had stated that there was "nothing wrong" with homosexuality (or "sodomy", to use biblical language). Honestly, I don't have any references to direct sources, but was told by people that I trust (my pastor included) that this band wasn't really standing up to biblical values these days. I wasn't listening to much of their songs, so I didn't investigate further. But a lot of people I know were very disturbed by it.

fiendik wrote:There was just a big stir recently that the leader of Jars of Clay had stated that there was "nothing wrong" with homosexuality (or "sodomy", to use biblical language). Honestly, I don't have any references to direct sources, but was told by people that I trust (my pastor included) that this band wasn't really standing up to biblical values these days. I wasn't listening to much of their songs, so I didn't investigate further. But a lot of people I know were very disturbed by it.

That's a classic case of misunderstanding the nuance of what someone is saying. Of course they are not condoning homosexuality. Haseltine said something along the lines of: 'the church should be more understanding and there should be a place for homosexual people in church'. This got picked up by some really conservative evangelical radio host who twisted those words into full support of a homosexual lifestyle. So please tell your pastor and your friends to get their facts straight.

p-freak wrote:

fiendik wrote:There was just a big stir recently that the leader of Jars of Clay had stated that there was "nothing wrong" with homosexuality (or "sodomy", to use biblical language). Honestly, I don't have any references to direct sources, but was told by people that I trust (my pastor included) that this band wasn't really standing up to biblical values these days. I wasn't listening to much of their songs, so I didn't investigate further. But a lot of people I know were very disturbed by it.

That's a classic case of misunderstanding the nuance of what someone is saying. Of course they are not condoning homosexuality. Haseltine said something along the lines of: 'the church should be more understanding and there should be a place for homosexual people in church'. This got picked up by some really conservative evangelical radio host who twisted those words into full support of a homosexual lifestyle. So please tell your pastor and your friends to get their facts straight.

Yeah, there's a difference between showing them the love of Christ and working with them, and condoning their lifestyle.
I believe scripture is pretty clear that homosexuality is not what God intended. However, there is a movement out there that embraces a different view of scripture and God's design and desire. Personally, I only know of two artists that are part of that movement. One is Ray Boltz, the other is Jennifer Knapp.

There are gays and pro in Gaither's videos. You would be surprised how they are in Gospel music. There are some in CCM, but they are not pushing it on anyone publicly.