Trump Tape

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Re: Trump Tape

Post by brent » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:27 pm

Anyone against Trump and for Hillary can kiss my rear end, because Hillary and her ho husband are THE biggest racists of all time. They have a history of using and abusing the black voters in Arkansas and in the USA as a whole. What have THEY done for black voters? How did they improve anything all of those years in "service"? How has Obummer improved life for the black voter? None of them have done A STINKING THING to improve things, only to make people more dependent upon a hand out WHICH EQUALS SLAVERY TO "THE MAN". How do you like that? Obama is an Uncle Tom.

Heck, how any Christian can vote for a Democrat is beyond me. They LOVE slavery! They love murder of innocent lives. Democrats were the dominant members of the KKK back when they were lynching and murdering people. Democrats voted in opposition to black rights. Democrats voted in opposition to women's rights. Not saying some Republicans were perfect, but they were the ones pushing for it. History is a beeotch.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by curt » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:47 am

For those of you who can find a more balanced view without feeling the need or be obliged to kiss Brents rear end (we are after all still living in a democratic world and hopefully some of you are still interested in discussing using approriate language) lets just remember that KKK are rather happy about Trump: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... e10fb17457

It should be noted that Trump does not support them in any way. It still is interesting to note that they are very happy with his politics. One should not forget the present when pointing to the past.

Let's not forget about the extremely serious situation in Aleppo which Trumps friend Putin is partly responsible for. They are killing civilians in their homes, in hospitals and practically speaking everywhere. And this includes women and children. Not that Obama was of great help but Trump is (if possible) only going to make it worse since he is friendly towards Putin.

And at the moment Trump disagrees with 17 intelligence services on the interpretation of the hacking attack on Hillay. Not that intellegence services have a history of being absolutely correct. Still a very interesting and unpredictable situation. It appears he trusts Putin over his own intelligence services. In that case he will surely regret.

So one would think it should be perfectly possible to be a bit reluctant on Trump. Not claiming by any means that Hillary would have been anywhere near perfect.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by brent » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:49 am

There is a difference between living in a democracy and being a "democrat". The majority of the world is NOT democratic or a democracy. Roughly 8% of the worlds population has pure democracy. That's about 20 countries. Flawed democracies account for 39.5%. Regimes account for 22.2% and authoritarian regimes account for 34.1%.

It doesn't matter that the KKK like Trump. The KKK like the bible too. They wrest the scriptures, but they like it and have used it and the cross for substantiation. I like Obama as a cultural leader, but he sucked as a reformer and president. Just because a citizen or an organization likes or supports a political figure or government does not mean the political figure or government endorses them. You have a simplistic view of the world. Heck, study how the world's biggest wars were won. We got in bed with people we wouldn't normally get in bed with for the common good of the world. Sounds like church.

As far as the hacking stuff goes, keep getting your liberal media info. The original report made no ties, only assumptions. The methods listed for hacking were speculative and the signature was from an off the shelf product teenage hackers can buy. That was on your liberal media this weekend. The FACTS are this is old news. It is done every day. All of the super powers engage in IT warfare daily. If you think this is more dangerous than the politicians holding the keys to the back door of all of the Diebold voting machines (C-SPAN hearings revealed this little gem), then you are certifiable. ANYTHING DIGITAL CAN AND WILL BE MANIPULATED.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by Mountain Man » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:59 am

curt wrote:For those of you who can find a more balanced view without feeling the need or be obliged to kiss Brents rear end (we are after all still living in a democratic world and hopefully some of you are still interested in discussing using approriate language) lets just remember that KKK are rather happy about Trump: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... e10fb17457
So? Trump can't help who endorses him, and he has explicitly denounced and condemned the KKK on numerous occasions.

But the KKK endorsing Trump is not nearly as bad Hillary endorsing the KKK when she described former KKK Exalted Cyclops Robert Byrd as a friend, mentor, and conscience of the Senate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryweuBVJMEA
curt wrote:Let's not forget about the extremely serious situation in Aleppo which Trumps friend Putin...
Trump and Putin are not "friends" except in the sense that unlike Obama and Hillary, Trump is not spoiling for a war with Russia.
curt wrote:And at the moment Trump disagrees with 17 intelligence services on the interpretation of the hacking attack on Hillay. Not that intellegence services have a history of being absolutely correct. Still a very interesting and unpredictable situation. It appears he trusts Putin over his own intelligence services. In that case he will surely regret.
You know who else disagrees? Anybody with common sense who has actually looked at the evidence. All they've said is that the hacks are consistent with ones that have been carried out by Russia in the past. What they haven't said is that they're also consistent with pretty much any other hacking attempt since the tools are open source and can be freely used by anyone.

For that matter, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper in his recent testimony before Congress said that Russia (assuming it was even them) didn't change any vote totals on election day, and in fact, he couldn't even say if the leaked emails had any impact on the election itself.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/01/ ... e-tallies/

So it's much ado about nothing. The only thing we know for sure is that liberals wouldn't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys about Russian hacking if Hillary had won.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by brent » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:33 am

You know, I don't understand the democrats. They wanted the world to have a Coke, a smile and sing Kumbaya. How does that happen? People get along. Democrats, who themselves write, push and take advantage of the laws allowing them to profit with international business, suddenly bash Trump for his relationships around the globe where he has businesses. This is hypocritical. EVERYONE on the planet benefits from international business. If the international business people get along, they make money, the governments are forced to get along because the people pulling the strings in the world are making money. Getting along and having business relationships in a good thing. But Obama wouldn't know anything about that. He hasn't worked a day in his life, by his own hands, for his own inventions, to put food on his table. I would rather have Trump calling Putin on his phone and working something out as buds than going through what we did in the 70s/80s with all of the SALT, SALTII nonsense.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by curt » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:01 pm

Some short replys:

Brent and Mountain Man have not noticed that I actually mentioned that Trump does not support KKK. So all your notes on that are correct to some extent. They just don't apply to what I wrote. The reason I found it interesting was because Brent blaimed the democrats for historically being pro KKK. Thus it is interesting to note that current KKK is pro the comming president. And now that does not necessarily mean his views are wrong. But it could be worth considering.

Brent holds that I have got a simplistic world view. He blaims this on a wrong assumtion because he believes I don't understand that alliances are made with lots of stupid and evil persons throughout world history (Stalin is an example to say the least). Of course I am aware of that. I just don't see how Trumps relation to Putin has got anything to do with that. If you think the two situations are comparable, you have a simplistic world view yourself. And your description of politicians and political opponents is obviously simplistic. Generally it is the case when Brent writes that he makes his oponents aware of this or that as if they were slightly ignorant or at least not as knowledgable as himself.

Both Brent and Mountain Man quickly passed the very serious situation in Allepo. There is no need for Trump to support Putin in this regard. This is not a necessary compromise in a larger political game.

Mountain Man claims that everyone with common sence will agree with Trump regarding the intelligence claim on the Hilton hack. Many republicans do not agree with him so the lack of common sence is quite widespread then. I never made a claim regarding what was the case. I just pointed out the fact that it is an interesting sitation when a comming President is opposed to 17 of the intelligence services he will be in charge of. Evidence in the case of intelligence is something we don't see as often as in regular crime investigation. So there are assumptions involved. I know for a fact that opponents of the the Russian regime are killed by those in political power. I know because it happens to strikingly many of them that they die in "traffic incidents" or "regular criminal acts" which are never uncovered. Of course I don't know this in the regular sence of "knowing". And I can't provide the evidence in a regular sense of evidence. And I wouldn't know in one specific case whether it actually was an incident though I would presume that most likely it is not. And the number of these incidents is far higher than any statistical reasonability would allow for.

Mountian Man claims that Obama and Hillary would cause a war with Putin. You will need to provide quite a lot of evidence on that. Putin has stretched the international society quite far. Are you even aware what is going on in Europe?

Putin was a supporter of the Soviet Union, he started his career in one of the most brutal and immoral intelligence services in world history (KGB). If you believe a friendly approach or making alliances with this man will get you anywhere you will be proven wrong by history. He follows the cold war logic and has forced us to follow it too. Look at what is going on in Ukraine. He understands power only and he stretches the ties to the furtherst. He cannot believe his own luck with Trump. And while he congratulates officially I assume he is laughing out loud privately.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by Dan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:14 pm

Why do Democrats take everything as a personal attack? ... do you even know what is going on in Europe?
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by curt » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:27 pm

Dear Dan

I wouldn't know since I'm not a Democrat. But I believe one should be respectful of other (at least legal) political views supporting democracy and not ask political oponents to kiss ones rear end.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by Dan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:06 pm

curt wrote:Dear Dan

I wouldn't know since I'm not a Democrat. But I believe one should be respectful of other (at least legal) political views supporting democracy and not ask political oponents to kiss ones rear end.
The question wasn't aimed at you... majority of my friends are Dems, and literally anything you say they take out of context as some sort of personal attack as if they were the center of the universe. As for kissing ones rear end, I don't judge what you do or don't do in your personal life.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by Mountain Man » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:17 pm

curt wrote:...it is interesting to note that current KKK is pro the comming president.
It's not interesting at all. It's just a thinly disguised and dishonest attempt to smear Trump's reputation through guilt by association.
curt wrote:Both Brent and Mountain Man quickly passed the very serious situation in Allepo. There is no need for Trump to support Putin in this regard. This is not a necessary compromise in a larger political game.
I passed over it because it's a worthless accusation. Trump hasn't said anything about Allepo one way or another as far as I know. We'll have to wait and see what happens after he's actually sworn in.
curt wrote:Mountain Man claims that everyone with common sence will agree with Trump regarding the intelligence claim on the Hilton hack. Many republicans do not agree with him so the lack of common sence is quite widespread then. I never made a claim regarding what was the case. I just pointed out the fact that it is an interesting sitation when a comming President is opposed to 17 of the intelligence services he will be in charge of. Evidence in the case of intelligence is something we don't see as often as in regular crime investigation. So there are assumptions involved. I know for a fact that opponents of the the Russian regime are killed by those in political power. I know because it happens to strikingly many of them that they die in "traffic incidents" or "regular criminal acts" which are never uncovered. Of course I don't know this in the regular sence of "knowing". And I can't provide the evidence in a regular sense of evidence. And I wouldn't know in one specific case whether it actually was an incident though I would presume that most likely it is not. And the number of these incidents is far higher than any statistical reasonability would allow for.
First of all, that "17 intelligence agencies" narrative came from something Hillary said in one of the debates. So far, I have not encountered a single source who is able to tell me exactly who those 17 intelligence agencies are, who from those agencies has been willing to go on record to accuse Russia, or even what it is the supposedly 17 intelligence agencies actually agree on. The recent statement put out by the DHS is vague to the point of worthlessness and even includes a disclaimer saying that the DHS can't guarantee the accuracy of its own report, and now we have James Clapper all but saying that the "hacks" did not influence the election in any meaningful way.
curt wrote:Mountian Man claims that Obama and Hillary would cause a war with Putin. You will need to provide quite a lot of evidence on that. Putin has stretched the international society quite far. Are you even aware what is going on in Europe?
Look at Obama's latest actions. He is rather obviously trying to piss off Putin. The good news is that Putin is smarter than Obama and has greeted Obama's actions with a smirk and reminders that Obama is a lame-duck president.
curt wrote:[Putin] cannot believe his own luck with Trump. And while he congratulates officially I assume he is laughing out loud privately.
Nah. If anything Putin is disappointed to see spineless Obama vacate the Oval Office. Putin has only been able to push things as far as he has because the Obama administration has been feckless. Remember the red-line in Syria? Or Hillary's infamous "Russian Reset"? Or the Uranium One deal? The only time Obama has shown any real willingness to stand up to Russia is in response to these unproven "hacks", but that's more of an attempt to put stumbling blocks in Trump's way than anything else.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by curt » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:00 pm

I agree with you that Obama was too much of a soft liner with regard to Putin and Assad. However Trump seems to be going even further. Purposely or not he is taking many actions which will suit Putin perfectly. He supported the brexit movement which is making the European Union weaker to Putin's benefit. Though I don't disagree with all Trumps points regarding NATO there are certainly interests on Putin's behalf of creating a conflict in NATO. Trumps attitude towards the European Union will also suit Putin perfectly.

No matter the facts there is a devide between the coming president and the intelligence services. If Putin is behind the attack then that will surely be of importance to him. It will make future attacks so much easier and he has created some sort of disruption or disharmony in the political system in the USA. Now this is of course speculation but I would not say it is very unlikely. And I wouldn't be surprised of Trump - aiming for some other goal - fails to see the significance at first sight but is forced to realise the truth too late. That wouldn't be an unheard of approach from a former KGB-officer.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by curt » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:15 pm

Being much less speculative. It's worth noting that Putin is showing more and more aggression towards Europe and while a strong oponent to this is much needed Trump does not seem to deliever. And many Americans seem to just regard him as smart (which he is in a tactical manner) and not aggresive and immoral, which he is to a very high degree.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by Mountain Man » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:27 pm

curt wrote:Putin is showing more and more aggression towards Europe and while a strong oponent to this is much needed Trump does not seem to deliever.
Dude, Trump isn't president yet. It's still Obama's watch. Like I said, wait until Trump is actually sworn in before you start complaining about what he is or isn't doing with regards to Russia, and don't expect him to overturn nearly a decade of staggeringly incompetent foreign policy overnight. It's going to take some time to undo all the damage Obama has caused.
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by curt » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:44 pm

Then he is going to have a different approach than one would suspect. But as Noam Chomsky said the only predictable thing about Trump is that he is non-predictable.

Getting slightly into another subject i can't help but qoute the following lines:

"US intelligence chiefs believe Russia was behind the hacking of Democratic Party emails to damage Hillary Clinton.

But hours before the briefing, Mr Trump dismissed the claims as a "political witch-hunt" by his opponents."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38532700

It's interesting to see that he seems to have known the facts before meeting the intelligence chiefs. And he seems to believe that what they are saying must be part of a political witch-hunt. Now let's assume they had convincing evidence then he would have to prove himself wrong when taking appropriate action against Russia. But he is not even afraid of taking the risk that they may have evidence. He seems determined to not reach that conclusion. While he may have good reasons for doubting the intelligence services writing them of beforehand seems biased. If it wasn't that this is so serious, I'd be laughing like Putin most certainly is (even if it wasn't the Russians).
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Re: Trump Tape

Post by Mountain Man » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:13 pm

I don't give a crap what Noam Chomsky has to say, so you may as well stop quoting him. Seriously, he still thinks socialism is a good idea, and this is the guy you think we should be listening to?

Anyway, people have been saying for months that the hacking had no impact on the election, including Obama himself.
The New York Times, November 25, 2016: 'The Obama administration said on Friday that despite Russian attempts to undermine the presidential election, it has concluded that the results “accurately reflect the will of the American people.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/us/po ... trump.html
James Clapper's recent congressional testimony invited the exact same conclusion.

Even John Kerry seemed a bit cavalier about hacking when he said last year that it's very likely that China and Russia have been reading his emails.
CNN, August 2015: 'Secretary of State John Kerry said that Chinese and Russian hackers are probably reading his emails -- and he writes messages assuming they are.

'"It is very likely," Kerry said during an interview on the "CBS Evening News" Tuesday night when asked by host Scott Pelley if he thinks either nation is reading his email.'

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/politics/ ... index.html
So why are they suddenly so hot and bothered by it now? Probably because Jill Stein's recounts, and attempts to influence the electoral college failed, so they're on to plan D, or E, or whatever this is now. I ask again, do you really think they would be making so much noise about Russian hacking if Hillary had won? Of course not. The story would have been quietly buried by the media and never mentioned again.

For that matter this isn't even a national security situation because the Democratic National Committee is a private organization, and it was their responsibility to keep their own data secure. It's a bit like complaining that your house was robbed when you left the front door wide open. That doesn't let the (probably not Russian) hackers off the hook, but this isn't the huge scandal that liberals are making it out to be either. It is, for all intents and purposes, a non-story. Old news. Much ado about nothing.

Look, Trump won fair and square, and I think he has the potential to do a lot of good. Alternatively, if you're more cynical, Hillary lost fair and square and won't have the opportunity to do further damage to the country. Either way, it wasn't the Russians, man.
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