Theological advice from unlikely sources.

A place for Petra fans to discuss other topics
User avatar
Mountain Man
Pethead Fanatic
Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 932
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:11 pm
#1 Album: Wake Up Call
Pethead since: 1983

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Mountain Man » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:36 pm

curt wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:55 pm
I think it is a stretch to call Bruce anti-American. After all he did play at president Obama's inaguation in 2008 and had a good relationship to president Obama.
Obama was one of the most anti-American US presidents in history. He was brought up under the tutelage of Reverend Jeremy "God Damn America" Wright, and his entire agenda was based on the premise that America was an illegitimate country that had to be cut down to size because we didn't "deserve" our prosperity or super-power status. Remember how one of his first acts as president was to run around the world to grovel at the feet of foreign leaders, begging their forgiveness for America's "arrogance"? It was rather shameful.
curt wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:55 pm
He has said the following on the ban: 'America is a nation of immigrants, and we find this anti-democratic and fundamentally un-American.' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rican.html
There's nothing un-American about defending our nation's borders from those who would do us harm, and at the moment, there's no good way to tell the difference between a legitimate refugee and a terrorist. You should look into the history of American immigration some time. We used to be extremely selective about who we would let in with the idea that those from cultures that could most easily integrate were given a preference over others. This was all turned on its head sometime in the 1960's when Senator Ted Kennedy introduced a bill the removed long-standing restrictions from our immigration laws, and since then, America's culture has become increasingly fragmented to the point that American patriotism is frowned upon and viewed as exclusionary and bigoted. It's a rather sad state of affairs.

brent
Extreme Pethead Fanatic
Extreme Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 4057
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:06 am

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by brent » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:20 pm

Immigrants can come to the USA. We are not ant-immigrant. We just want to make sure they are healthy, law-abiding and will go through the process legally.

Look, the US only has so much money, so much habitable space and resources. We can't have everyone come and mooch. It is not sustainable.

I prefer the line of thinking that says, "Let's go make your country of origin so good, you don't want to leave it. Make YOUR country great."

User avatar
Dan
Pethead Fanatic
Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 2386
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:17 am
#1 Album: This Means War!
Pethead since: 1987
Location: USA

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Dan » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:35 pm


brent
Extreme Pethead Fanatic
Extreme Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 4057
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:06 am

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by brent » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:26 am

Germany is having the same types of problems. Mass immigration is not good!

Markus
Pethead
Pethead
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:57 pm

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Markus » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:54 am

Sry Brent, but as a German - I have to disagree.

Look, Germany took a lot of refugees. And whenever a lot of people are at the same place, you will find good people and bad people as well. So of course you will find examples of refugees who did bad things. But comparing to the number of people, everything is fine here in Germany.

I have to say that laws are of course a "measuring tape" for me. But on the other side, I'm a christian and so there is a higher law for me. And thats also a reason for me, to treat refugees with love and respect. I think, this is the way God wants me to act.

By the way - and this is not directed to you Brent - sometimes I would like to see members of the zone act, talk and handle with more love to each other. We are christians, so non-christians should see a difference.

All the best,
Markus

PS: Anyone listened to "Homeless Few"?

User avatar
Mountain Man
Pethead Fanatic
Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 932
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:11 pm
#1 Album: Wake Up Call
Pethead since: 1983

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Mountain Man » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:44 am

So here's a question: Should government policy be based on Biblical admonitions that were intended for the individual?

In other words, you can open your home to the less fortunate, and that's fine, but is it really practical or even desirable to open up the entire country in a similar manner?

curt
Pethead
Pethead
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:48 am

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by curt » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:40 pm

The most significant fact about what has been going on in Germany and Sweden is the fact that hundreds of thousands of people, each one being equally as important as anyone reading this, are alive and living in a situation in which they can hope for a better future and in which their basic needs are covered.

These countries should recieve praise and not recieve criticism for what they have been doing. Let me ask anyone who disagrees: where would you rather see those refugees and migrants? In Syria living in constant fear, in much poorer countries who have already taken significantly more though they do not have the ability to provide that much help? The children are freezing and they are hungry. Is that what would have been the better situation? Of couse they could also very likely have died. I don't suspect anyone in here would wish for that. In much of the covering of the situation it is completely forgotten that these real human beings would either suffer a lot or die if it was not for Germany and Sweden. This is the most important part of that story. Period. By only focusing on other parts of that story the most important and significant fact is forgotten.

Now, it is true that there are bad people everywhere. Thus both in Germany and Sweden extremists have been burning refugee homes and gone to extreme efforts to scare refugees. Recently a bunch of Swedish heartless extremist had planned an attack. A nunmber of children were to arrive without their parents since their parents were either killed or lost. The Swedish extremists had the intention to beat these childen as soon as they arrived. Fortunately the police had intelligence on their plannings so they were arrested before they had the chance to do what they had heartlesly planned to do.

Those people, all those racists, extremists, heartless people should be held accountable. Why are so many people so much more concerned about pointing fingers at the governments and everyone else who is trying to help people in need? The extremists bear a huge responsibility because they create a lot of fear, make refugees feel unwelcome and thus makes it very hard to integrate the refugees. Of course there are also extremists among the refugees. I think Markus had some very important points in that regard. Among such a large number of people there are bound to be some with bad, even very bad intentions. But the fingers should defnitely also point to grown up men who are planning to beat children who have lost their parents. Dimensions seem to have gone completely lost. It seems there is a huge focus on "what is best for me and my country". In that regard people forget the extremists among ourselves and the innocent among the others.

And again people some people want to hold the governments responsible. Responsible for what? For not letting hundreds of thousands of people die or live in extremely bad conditions. For not saying "you are a muslim and all muslims are suspicios go somewhere else (or die)"?. We should hold the terrorist responsible, and we should hold extremists among ourselves responsible. And Europe (apart from Sweden and Germany) and the USA should hold itself responisble for not helping Sweden, Germany or some very poor countries when they did what we were all supposed to do.

It is of course true that there are tensions in both Sweden and Germany. And all the criminals should be held accountable. But where would you rather see all the rest?

Yesterday Shell talked about what would happen if the situation was reversed. If you were a refugee you would easily understand why Sweden and Germany should be proud. Today Mountain Man asked whether principles that were directed towards the indivual should be the principles behind governmental politics. That is a very difficult discussion. I recognise the fact that no country can take all refugees. But I do not believe in the "all or nothing" attitude (not saying Mountain Man has that attitude). And I see no point in having one set of moral guidelines when acting towards other individuals and a completely different when voting or doing politics. Can you teach the example of the good Samaritan in church and then in other contexts go for politics in which people in tremendous need will not be helped? Again I recognise that there is a tension and that politics is not the church, and that politics is very complicated. However I see no need for not letting good moral principle be the base of politics. And currently I completely fail to see that Europeans of Americans (with very few exections) are so poor that they should not help those who are so very much poorer.

User avatar
Dan
Pethead Fanatic
Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 2386
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:17 am
#1 Album: This Means War!
Pethead since: 1987
Location: USA

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Dan » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:54 pm

Curt how many immigrants have you personally taken into your home in Denmark? wait for it....

Here is why...

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/10 ... six-years/

:oops:

Markus
Pethead
Pethead
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:57 pm

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Markus » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:04 pm

Dan, please be kind and do not insult Curt. Let's discuss fair and with respect. :)

User avatar
Dan
Pethead Fanatic
Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 2386
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:17 am
#1 Album: This Means War!
Pethead since: 1987
Location: USA

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Dan » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:10 pm

Markus wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:04 pm
Dan, please be kind and do not insult Curt. Let's discuss fair and with respect. :)
Fair enough Markus, I just love this country... and get tired of the anti-American attitude. This website is hosted in this great country, so people should be respectful.

Markus
Pethead
Pethead
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:57 pm

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Markus » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:25 pm

As a German I'm very thankful for *a lot* things American people did for my country. Seriously! On the other hand, as a German, I know what can happen, when people tend to "love" their country "too much". Or be "proud of their country". Whatever this is.
This "Germany first" , put my country into one of biggest tragedies ever and as I like the US, I deeply hope, that everything will work out good for the US. I can't say "love the US", as - to quote one former German president: I do not love my country, I love my wife. 😊

Never forget: First, we are Christians! And not American, German, Danish, or wherever God placed us for birth.
We should thank God for every Muslim, who comes to us, as we don't have go the whole way to their country and tell them the good news. The news of God love.

BTW, Dan do you know that Breitbart is publishing "news", which were revealed as untruth?

All the best Bro

User avatar
Mountain Man
Pethead Fanatic
Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 932
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:11 pm
#1 Album: Wake Up Call
Pethead since: 1983

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Mountain Man » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:35 pm

Markus wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:25 pm
BTW, Dan do you know that Breitbart is publishing "news", which were revealed as untruth?
I know Breitbart is often accused of publishing "fake news" by its detractors, but actual examples to support such an accusation have been few and far between.

User avatar
Dan
Pethead Fanatic
Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 2386
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:17 am
#1 Album: This Means War!
Pethead since: 1987
Location: USA

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Dan » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:19 pm

Breitbart is no worse than CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, New York times,Huffington Post or any of the other fake news pushers. I am sick of people think the US is some free for all country, savior of the world. The US needs to be left alone and on the same token, the US needs to stay out of the middle east.

curt
Pethead
Pethead
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:48 am

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by curt » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:21 pm

I think this one is important. The Swedish governtment has provided some facts on migration. I did post it once before. If that was deleted on purpose let me know. There is no intention on my side to provoke or cause disorder. I think this the topic is very relevant and of great significance. And it relates to stuff in this thread.

http://www.government.se/articles/2017/ ... in-sweden/

Best wishes

User avatar
Dan
Pethead Fanatic
Pethead Fanatic
Posts: 2386
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:17 am
#1 Album: This Means War!
Pethead since: 1987
Location: USA

Re: Theological advice from unlikely sources.

Post by Dan » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:39 pm

Well of course the government is going to issue statements like that, it is affecting their image, makes them look weak when there are no go zones.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39047455

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest