Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

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wildmanpetra
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Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by wildmanpetra » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:15 am

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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by fiendik » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:07 pm

What good is a record player without the dual cassette dubbing decks?
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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by brent » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:20 pm

It is a nostalgia thing. We probably won't see vinyl be accepted by the masses the way it is accepted by audiophiles, hipsters and tech nerds. Heck, vinyl has come and gone from some retailer shelves. People thought this was going to be a "thing" 10 years ago. It has been a slow build up.

With distributors like Netflix and Amazon dropping whole seasons of shows, and people binge watching them, maybe listening to an album of music won't be such a stretch. But, maybe we can get back to albums only being released on physical media again. Then the artists will be able to make money on recordings. Maybe it will thin out the crap from the crap not. The junk will be free on-line and the good stuff will cost money and will be worth it.

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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by curt » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:19 am

I believe the progress (though it is not necessarily good by all means) is irreversible. I don't believe we will be returning to bying records again. It is beyond the control of the industry (at least during the current conditions).

The musicians and the record labels may want to make certain agreements with spotifiy, apple music or whatever service. And they may even achieve their goal. Some musicians may even want to keep their music of these streaming services like The Beatles among others did for a period. What they can hardly control, however, is the fact that the records are made available on youtube for the masses or by smaller, illegal services.

If you want to go mainstream, you have to be on the mainstream platforms. That's what they all realised.

But it is interesting to note that the idea of an album has survived though nothing speaks in favour of it in technical terms any longer. They might as well release their music track by track (and that would reduce the number of songs just being there because the band felt they needed 10 songs for the record). Of course billboard, magazines and so on all focus on the record concept, but to some extent it is a little surprising since very few musicians actually have used the concept of an album to its full extent.

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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by brent » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:09 am

You aren't going to find many musicians happy with their touring revenue, labels, licensing and distribution deals wanting their music given away for free. I have heard musicians in successful bands (by today's standards) say youtube is killing them, because once people hear a new song, it is quickly consumed and the artist cannot get to their part of the world fast enough to support it and be compensated. It isn't like the old days when a new song with managed and limited distribution would motivate a purchase of a concert ticket. Now people hear it for free, the effect burns out, and the listener doesn't buy the a copy of it or come to a show. Their music is a commodity that has little value.

The facts are, unless you are the copyright owner, it is illegal to post music on youtube. This is why video recording at concerts is prohibited by those artists, promotors and many venues. This is not to say it doesn't happen or course. But it is immoral and illegal to give away what is not yours. It is a full time job, getting music pulled from the internet, but artists and labels have done successfully. Prince was the best example. He knew that over exposure and lack of control = no money. He tried giving a record away with concert tickets, bypassing the machine that made him rich. It flopped. Giving the album away did not bring any more value to the tour. It cost him a boat load of money. So, when he regained ownership of his masters, he cut all music sharing and download services off. So, the youtube thing can be dealt with.

New and legacy artists desperate for exposure embrace youtube. There are a handful of artists who have been discovered and have sustained careers outside of the industry. One of them just won a Grammy completely outside of the industry. They see youtube is a mainline to the people. That said, you can't just get on youtube and expect to have an audience. All of those artists face the same problems established artists face, and must do more work with less resources to get exposure. In the end, almost all of them have ended up building the same exact business they were trying to avoid signing with.

There are so many competing events and living expenses for the same disposable income now, that people did not have with less media channels and no internet, that it is impossible for there to be another rock band as large as The Beatles, Journey, Van Halen, Def Leppard, Rush, etc. There are too many people creating cheap music and most of it is crap. The majority of the new music today will not be memorialized the way the music of the 60s - 90s is. All this is to say that there WILL be another physical media driven or proprietary file solution to add value to music.

Everything is cyclical. You may not see it, but I do. If you want people to value something and make it collectable, it must be unique and limited in supply. When a product is mass produced, it has a shelf life. This is true for cars, art, homes/buildings, jewelry....everything. Something will happen in the world, that will take us to a place where we need or desire physical media, or a proprietary delivery method, that allows musicians to opt in, or opt out, protecting their intellectual property, guaranteeing them compensation for licenses purchased by users. We will have to adopt as an industry, because we are rewiring people brains in kindergarten, beginning their educations with immediate gratification from a response on an iPad. The kids taught with iPads and Common Core are taught to be impatient and to accept anything if the thing you want is not available. Very, very dangerous.

As for the track by track thing. that is cyclical too. We began selling albums, which were live performances, caught in real time, warts and all. Then we went pushed singles with a B side. It all comes and goes. But the facts are, NO artist is making much money from any of the download services. Spotify pays fractions of a penny per play. Then 90% of those pennies are divided amongst the musicians, producers, engineers, copyright owner(s), etc. Depends on what the deal is. So, nobody likes the pay scale of the current model. Radio paid much more by comparison. Heck, musicians today would love to make $3 a CD instead of $0 per free download.

It will all come around again. When people have had enough of being bent over, there will be a change.

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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by curt » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:36 am

I do agree with quite many of your points. However the change brought about by the internet does not compare to any other changes with regard to to moving from vinyl to cd's and then back again. The younger generation does not see any point in "owning" the music. For what reason if you can still hear it?

Some musicians have done their best to fight the streaming services but they have all found it means loosing yonger listeners who are only listening on spotify or whatever service. I think the revival of vinyl is a reaction partly to that - but I don't believe for a second we will bying music on a physical media again unless we chose to do that for nostalgia or some other reason. I know of an example of a musician who wanted to go "only vinyl". Of course his "only vinyl" is available everywhere online. Now that is not fair, but it is going to be very hard to change.

I don't believe for a second physical media will ever be mainstream again. No matter that I can about the existence of some of the less positve consequences I also think there are quite many very, very good consequences of the streaming services that actually pay (though not enough). The media is suffering equally by the existence of online media and the fact that they have to provide most of their content free of charge. I know of no media that has a "turn back to paper" strategy.

In Europe concerts are selling out faster than ever and at more than twice the ticket price we usually paid. People are ready to pay for what is unique.

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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by brent » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:59 am

There are already subscription based services for high-res audio and physical media services. 1:1 copies of tape masters with tape machines have been sold to audiophiles for years. I don't think vinyl or tape is "it" for the masses, though some bands are releasing on cassette again. There will be some delivery method developed by a manufacturer, AES, RIAA, or a wing of NARAS that will give the artists control of their own destiny and provide quality control. It could very well be an on-line subscription services. In time, the free stuff will be low end MP3, and the good stuff will be some form of a high res file.

In the professional AV industry, new audio and video compression codecs are showing up, allowing us to send 4k and one day 8k video with 24/96 audio over 10G networks, using standard switches and CAT6. Samsung just purchased Harman. Harman is the largest audio, video, lighting and control company in the world. Just about every modern car has Harman Automotive networking, communication and security technology in it. This automotive technology is driving the world of AV and IT. Samsung wants to rule the automotive, consumer and professional AV and IT world. Based upon what I know as a Harman dealer (JBL, Soundcraft, Crown, AKG, dbx, Martin, AMX, Lexicon, etc) I can easily see trickle down technology having a role in whatever the new medium is. We are starting to get a glimpse into the future now. My money is Samsung coming out with a new consumer technology within 10 years that will be a possible solution.

The biggest reason for physical media is simple. Availability. The music, videos and books on the various services is not permanent. The services are not permanent. People had better collect their favorites, because there is zero guarantee the content will be available in the future. All contracts from media companies expire and get renegotiated....or not.

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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by fiendik » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:31 pm

As a young person, I can say for a fact that buying a vinyl record of a new album is totally ridiculous. CD, maybe, but records, no. I personally prefer to have a stable hard copy (not streaming), but not a bulky, useless heap of discs. I think that internet radio and internet downloads are the way of the future because that's actually practical. Of course, people won't work for free, so they'd have to figure out some way of protecting it, but when money is involved, people usually find a way.

So basically we need something to indirectly pay for an mp3 copy, so that it's like a hard copy, but without the bulk. I personally like to buy a CD and then put it on my Zune mp3 player so I can actually use it.
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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by curt » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:21 am

An interesting article on the growth of paid-for streaming services: http://www.whathifi.com/news/growth-pai ... y-revenues

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any reason we are misspelling vinyl?

Post by rexreed » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:34 pm

fiendik wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:31 pm
As a young person, I can say for a fact that buying a vinyl record of a new album is totally ridiculous. CD, maybe, but records, no. I personally prefer to have a stable hard copy (not streaming), but not a bulky, useless heap of discs. I think that internet radio and internet downloads are the way of the future because that's actually practical. Of course, people won't work for free, so they'd have to figure out some way of protecting it, but when money is involved, people usually find a way.

So basically we need something to indirectly pay for an mp3 copy, so that it's like a hard copy, but without the bulk. I personally like to buy a CD and then put it on my Zune mp3 player so I can actually use it.
Wait, so purchasing a new record (vinyl) is ridiculous? So says the person still using a Zune? LOL! There are a couple good reasons to buy a record (vinyl. One, it still works and you enjoy the sound, 2- If your internet is down you can still listen to your albums.

Vinyl was not what we called them- they are albums or records! No one ever said "Hey, let's go to Hasting's and look at the new vinyl." or "my vinyl player needs a new stylus."
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Re: Vynil's Comeback- Interesting

Post by fiendik » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:40 pm

I didn't say that buying records is ridiculous, only buying records of new albums. I do actually own a record player, incidentally. And yeah, the Zune thing is just thrown out there for lols :lol:
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