The real crucifixtion day?

[brent]

I don't celebrate "Easter" in the pagan sense, but do celebrate the resurrection of Christ. So, happy resurrection of Christ day.

Btw, any takers on the whole Good Friday debate?

1. Prophecy states that Jesus would be in the earth just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish, three days and three nights. This does not allow enough time if he was buried on Friday.

2. The POF was also called the Sabbath, and in Matt, the Sabbaths were plural. There were many sabbaths other than the day according to the Temple Calender. Some of these were specific dates which changed days
each year. Then we have the Sabbatical year as well.

3. I think that we cave to tradition of the Catholic church (and others) and the devil has a chuckle, celebrating over commercialized holidays originally set aside as holy.

[Jonathan]

I guess I don't care what day it actually happened, or what I'm supposed to observe or remember on which day. But when I get there in my studies of the Bible, I'll have a better opinion.

I only really know the Bible (from an intensive study standpoint) up through Numbers, so it will be a while.

But the resurrection happened, whatever day it happened. Apparently. And I'm glad it happened.

[charl]

Athanasius:

Fitting indeed, then, and wholly consonant was the death on the cross for us; and we can see how reasonable it was, and why it is that the salvation of the world could be accomplished in no other way. Even on the cross He did not hide Himself from sight; rather, He made all creation witness to the presence of its Maker. Then, having once let it be seen that it was truly dead, He did not allow that temple of His body to linger long, but forthwith on the third day raised it up, impassable and incorruptible, the pledge and token of His victory.

It was, of course, within His power thus to have raised His body and displayed it as alive directly after death. But the all-wise Savior did not do this, lest some should deny that it had really or completely died. Besides this, had the interval between His death and resurrection been but two days, the glory of His incorruption might not have appeared. He waited one whole day to show that His body was really dead, and then on the third day showed it incorruptible to all. The interval was no longer, lest people should have forgotten about it and grown doubtful whether it were in truth the same body. No, while the affair was still ringing in their ears and their eyes were still straining and their minds in turmoil, and while those who had put Him to death were still on the spot and themselves witnessing to the fact of it, the Son of God after three days showed His once dead body immortal and incorruptible; and it was evident to all that it was from no natural weakness that the body which the Word indwelt had died, but in order that in it by the Savior's power death might be done away.

I put this on mah blog also.

Death has been swallowed up in victory!!!

[calicowriter]

Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the THIRD DAY be raised to life.

Matthew 17:23
They will kill him, and on the THIRD DAY he will be raised to life." And the disciples were filled with grief.

Matthew 20:19
and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the THIRD DAY he will be raised to life!"

Matthew 27:64
So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the THIRD DAY. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first."

Luke 9:22
And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the THIRD DAY be raised to life."


Luke 18:33
On the THIRD DAY he will rise again."

Luke 24:7
'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the THIRD DAY be raised again.' "

Luke 24:21
but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the THIRD DAY since all this took place.

Luke 24:46
He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the THIRD DAY,

Acts 10:40
but God raised him from the dead on the THIRD DAY and caused him to be seen.

1 Corinthians 15:4
that he was buried, that he was raised on the THIRD DAY according to the Scriptures,

None of these references say Jesus was in the tomb, or would be in the tomb for three days, or 72 hours – Friday was day one, Saturday was day two and Sunday was day three, aka, the THIRD DAY.

Works for me.

[brent]

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Makes crucifixtion on Friday kind of impossible. Either the bible is right all the time or some of the time...or man has given into the incorrect tradition, just as we have done with Christmas.

[calicowriter]

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Makes crucifixtion on Friday kind of impossible. Either the bible is right all the time or some of the time...or man has given into the incorrect tradition, just as we have done with Christmas.

Personally, eleven references to the 'third day' and only one to 'three days and three nights' hardly seems like "giving in to incorrect tradition." But, since none of us was there, I see no reason to raise a ruckus over it.

[winterlens]

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Makes crucifixtion on Friday kind of impossible. Either the bible is right all the time or some of the time...or man has given into the incorrect tradition, just as we have done with Christmas.

There is some confusion about when the crucifixion actually happened, i.e., what part of the week, but there's general agreement that he spent what we would consider the right amount of time in the tomb.

Keep in mind that they didn't keep track of time the way we do, both simply in the way they counted days, but also in the calendar (the Romans and Jews used different calendars, for example; the synoptics might provide time references according to one and John references according to another). Precision in time measurements really didn't happen for the common man until the early 1900s and the adoption of the wristwatch. (The history of time-keeping is a worthwhile study about which I know very little.)

[brent]

I hear that. Supposedly, when someone went to jail, the crook received credit for a day, no matter what time of the day entered, etc. The problem with that is that there are other argument

The thing is this. The prophecy is God given. God gave us the structure for a day(24 hours) and a week (7 days).

No matter how you slice it, whether the day starts at 6AM and ends at 6PM, or 12AM/12PM like we have it now, there still were not enough days and nights between Friday and Sunday.

[winterlens]

I hear that. Supposedly, when someone went to jail, the crook received credit for a day, no matter what time of the day entered, etc. The problem with that is that there are other argument

The thing is this. The prophecy is God given. God gave us the structure for a day(24 hours) and a week (7 days).

No matter how you slice it, whether the day starts at 6AM and ends at 6PM, or 12AM/12PM like we have it now, there still were not enough days and nights between Friday and Sunday.

One source for your consideration is http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/threeday.html -- dunno that I really buy it, or that I even care that much (I'm not persuaded that 72 hours were required to count it as legitimate prophecy).

[brent]

Some people may not be bothered with it. But if I am going to have to give a reasonable answer for the facts, I should know them don't you think? It makes me look silly if I can't count.

The "third day" referenced above still proves the point that there had to be three days that Christ was in the grave. NOT THREE DAYS INCLUDING THE TRIAL AND CRUCIFIXTION. The bible says three days and nights in the heart of the earth. God counts a day in Genesis as: "the evening and the morning". Later a Jewish man changed it from that to "evening to evening".

Luke says that Christ was buried near daylight of Saturday. So that leaves Saturday day, Saturday night until the early hours of the morning, because the ladies were up and at the site around daybreak according to John. He says it was still dark outside and Jesus was gone. Again, how do you get three days out of being in the ground Saturday?

If the week of the passover was a sabbath week, Jesus would have been in the ground by late Friday night/Thursday daybreak, all day Friday, all day Saturday, etc. It makes more sense and actually can be argued to like up with Nisan 15.

[charl]

While we've been through this before and I remain unconvinced (as Friday Saturday, Sunday sounds like three days to me), I have to ask why does it matter?

The early church had a powerful debate over when the paschal feast should be celebrated. Then they settled it.

[brent]

It's a big deal because it makes us look stupid, that's why. It also matters that we cannot explain with certainty THE central and most important thing that Jesus did for us. If we have misinterpreted scripture and misapplied it as a result (the same way that we have treated Christmas), then what else are we wrong about? What other ways is man redefining Christianity? Why are we so willing to accept it because it is the way it has been, and we are comfortable with it? To me this is dangerous.

You cannot count Friday, because it was all but over by the time Jesus was buried according to scripture. They put him in the grave basically Saturday morning. So he is in the ground Saturday day and night and a few hours of Sunday. That is supposed to be three days? It isn't.

This is a case of the church misinterpreting scripture and not understanding the temple calender, Jewish customs, etc.

[p-freak]

This is a case of the church misinterpreting scripture and not understanding the temple calender, Jewish customs, etc.

Blah, blah, chitter chatter, humbug...

It might be a case of modern minds not able to comprehend texts that were written thousands of years ago in to our minds totally alien cultures. The figure of speech of three days and three night equals on the third day. In eastern wisdom and prophetic literature it isn't about building a system that doesn't show any gaps. It's about conveying a message. It would look stupid to talk about three days and two nights. That sounds really dumb because everyone would have the basic idea that three days require three nights. So it's (just) a figure of speech that we don't understand anymore today, because we want everything to be totally controlled.

[charl]

Please.

The trial of Christ was when it was still dark, ie very early in the morning, and it is clear that he died before sundown, that is on Friday not Saturday. He was already dead when they wanted the criminals killed to avoid problems with sabbath (beginning Friday evening) laws. The Jews used a lunar calendar beginning the day at sunset. Romans began the day at sunrise. Either way three days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday are involved. So it is more than plausible.

Since the dust of the Paschal debates has been settled for over a thousand years, I fail to see the point of stirring it back up just to please ourselves and our own sense of rightness. The point is that Jesus died and was in the tomb long enough to irrefutably be dead before he rose again. We celebrate this and worship him as the Godman.

[brent]

Ok, THINK! Even using the Jewish sunset to sunset is one day, how do we get three days? He was not in the ground much longer than a day an a half. Demonstrate it.