Election 2004

gman · Post by **gman** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:30 am

From the Romans passages I think one could make a reasonable argument that stopping the evil of Saddam Hussein and helping the people over there was reason enough to og over there and take him out. You might even take that so far as to say that we dropped the ball by not taking him out during the first gulf war. Many citizens wanted and hoped for that, and perhaps even expected it. Because we didn't do it then, I think that is one reason we are seeing the terrorism over there now like we are. Because it took us more than a decade to get over there some are skeptical as to what are true intentions are over there, and some are even afraid that we might cut and run. That is why we need a leader who will continue this mission. To leave them high and dry is not a good thing biblically from a compassion and aid to others standpoint.

rlima · Post by **rlima** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:43 pm

We usually have a dualistic vision of the world. So, we think some things are spiritual, and some things are secular. According to the Scriptures, there's not such a vision like that. So, Romans 13 does not refers only to "God's institution", such as the Church (Church-institution, not Church-body), but to all institutions: government in all spheres (neighborhood, city, State, Country), marriage, job, business. Pauls intended to say, at times of great persecution of the Church by the Roman Empire: "the emperor is a John Doe with an army, and his power comes from God". We must understand that any president, from any country, is nothing more than a John Doe with an army, with his power and authority coming from God, and not from himself, or the party, or another political structure.

micah · Post by **micah** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:31 pm

LexingtonPethead wrote:I know you mean this as a metaphor, though I think you could have chosen a better one. No rational person could call George W Bush evil and have any credibility in doing so. I believe Bush is an evangelical Christian who sincerely loves the Lord and follows Christ as best he can. There are accolades of Bush sharing the gospel with individuals, literally winning souls for Christ. Evil you say? I think not.

Maybe, maybe not. Two major concerns:

1. He has actually bowed to some false Shinto god shrine in Korea (Japan?)

2. He has said that Muslims worship the same God that we do.

Maybe both were mistakes in a moment of weakness, but no Christian should ever, EVER do those things.

Nevertheless, I have a friend back home who worked closely with Bush on health legislation when he was governor of Texas. My friend insists that Bush is a Godly man.

That could well be true, but he is apparently not above compromising the Gospel for a good photo-op.

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:51 pm

micah wrote:
LexingtonPethead wrote:I know you mean this as a metaphor, though I think you could have chosen a better one. No rational person could call George W Bush evil and have any credibility in doing so. I believe Bush is an evangelical Christian who sincerely loves the Lord and follows Christ as best he can. There are accolades of Bush sharing the gospel with individuals, literally winning souls for Christ. Evil you say? I think not.
Maybe, maybe not. Two major concerns:

1. He has actually bowed to some false Shinto god shrine in Korea (Japan?)

2. He has said that Muslims worship the same God that we do.

Maybe both were mistakes in a moment of weakness, but no Christian should ever, EVER do those things.

Nevertheless, I have a friend back home who worked closely with Bush on health legislation when he was governor of Texas. My friend insists that Bush is a Godly man.

That could well be true, but he is apparently not above compromising the Gospel for a good photo-op.

All speculation. I've seen no hard evidence on this.

micah · Post by **micah** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:52 am

#1 might not be true, but I believe #2 is verifiable.

Pethead1 · Post by **Pethead1** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:54 am

Bush is still better than a kool-aid drinker who has to borrow money from his wife, who will not tell the people how much money she has from her dead husband, to be prez.

He will also say what he means and not change his mind the next day.

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:39 am

micah wrote:#1 might not be true, but I believe #2 is verifiable.

I still like to see supporting evidence.

I was thinking about your second statement about the Muslims worshipping the same God we do. In a sense, they actually do.

It's kinda hard to explain, but basically, the prophet Mohammed claimed an angel (I believe it was an angel...it's been so long I can't remember) gave him an addition to the Hebrew scripture. True, the Muslims call God "Allah," but perhaps they felt they needed to give God a less generic name or perhaps "Allah" is the Muslim word for God. Also, Islam is one of the very few religions throughout history that has been monotheistic, along with Christianity, and both religions have stood the test of time. The major difference between these two religions is that Islam denies the Deity of Christ, while Christianity does not.

Think about it this way. In a sense, the Mormons worship the same God Christians do, and they've even added to the Scriptures, just like Muslims, but as long as these groups deny the Deity of Christ, they're going about the whole thing wrong. Catholicism could also be used as an example, as they have also added to the Scriptures and many Catholics deny the Deity of Christ.

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:34 pm

separateunion wrote:I was thinking about your second statement about the Muslims worshipping the same God we do. In a sense, they actually do.

You're on to something there, Jason. To clarify a little, though I'm not an expert on this, and I'm too tired to look it up, but as I understand it, Abraham had to sons... Jacob and Ishmael. Jacob's desecendents spawned the Jewish race as we know it, while Ishmael, the son who was sent away, is the father of the Arab race. Muslims today insist that Ishmael was the to receive the Promised Land, not Jacob. Of course, Scripture tells us correctly that Jacob was the one God favored and the one to see the Promised Land.

All that to say, even Muslims go all the way back to Abraham to trace their origins... and of course, Abraham worshipped the same God we do. You could say, in one sense, that father Abraham was the father of Jews AND of Arabs/Muslims.

So if George Bush made the statement Micah says he did, he is technically correct, in my opinion. And I don't interpret such a statement as a condonement, endorsement or an attempt to legitimize Islam as a "correct" religion - just a statement of historical fact.

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:36 pm

Pethead1 wrote:Bush is still better than a kool-aid drinker who has to borrow money from his wife, who will not tell the people how much money she has from her dead husband, to be prez.

Sounds like someone's been listening to Sean Hannity!!

May America be Hannitized!!

Susannah · Post by **Susannah** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:48 pm

Just wanted to make a correction...Abraham's son was Isaac, not Jacob. Jacob was the son of Isaac.

Pethead1 · Post by **Pethead1** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:22 am

We really should Hannitize the vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:26 am

Susannah wrote:Just wanted to make a correction...Abraham's son was Isaac, not Jacob. Jacob was the son of Isaac.

How right you are!! I knew something didn't sound quite right. I need an Old Testament refresher!

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:05 am

Sean Hannity rocks.

I like Bill O'Reilly too. I don't agree with everything he says, but I love the way he goes after the Hollywood big shots. I live too close to that lovely city.

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:23 pm

Speaking of Hollywood, did anyone see Fox News this morning? Stephen Baldwin (one of the brothers of Alec Baldwin the liberal wacko) is a born-again Christian, and was on Fox News promoting a Christian, what was it now, a Christian skateboard track? Yeah! Did anyone else see that? Wow, he testified to some extent about Christ. I thought I was hallucinating at first.

I was in one of the local Christian stores the other day, and noticed a promotional piece for a movie called "Livin' It", which I think is about the skateboard thing he's doing. I saw his picture on the promo and kinda wondered if this was the real deal.

gman · Post by **gman** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:11 pm

Yeah, Stephen seems like he is on the right track. There was great article in CCM awhile back where he was having a conversation with some (can't remember who) is New York City restaurant and his brother Alec walked in and joined the conversation. It's printed in the magazine. Great stuff.
Hannity is a cool guy too; love him Fox.
Glenn Beck rules the radio though! He is on from 9 to 12 AM in the morning in most markets. His website, glennbeck.com is fantastic!

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Election 2004

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