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Post by LexingtonPethead » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:14 am

johnathan wrote::( wow folks we are getting alittle viloent in here, I am glad that we all have our own opinion but I don't think that is the way it is supposed to be in here. Personally i am offended by some of the stuff being said. My wife is a new believer and just started coming in here and is having a hard time right now and then she see this.
Johnathan, if my wording is a bit strong, please overlook it. There are certain people who get on here and bad-mouth the US and promote socialism which is opposite of the freedoms we have in America.

There's nothing being said in this thread that hasn't already been said before on the Zone, and it gets old when the same people start in with their America-bashing.

The way I see it, if they're going to open their mouth to offend people who love the freedom we have in America, they shouldn't be surprised when someone stuffs a sock in it.
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Post by johnathan » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:25 am

I also have a problem with the insurance thing,We have no insurance because my work fired me while I was under Dr's care. I had to have surgery and didn't have it. Is that wrong of me? I don't think so you need to watch how you word stuff this subject is really touchy too some people in here know what i am talking about. I have to draw unemployment to help out with the bills and also have to pay for the surgery,which is now up to $9,000 and I still don't feel that great. I am gonna have to have something done again. So now do you all understand where i am coming from? I love this zone and all the people in it let's just calm down a little some new comers looking at the zone are gonna be like wow this is not cool. Anyway just my 2 cents worth. And still thanks for all the prayers for my wife and I.
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Post by Shell » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:54 am

Oh, insurance here isn't perfect, that's been an issue for me too. I work at home and can't get insurance because of preexisting stuff. I don't think anyone here is trying to say the system is perfect. Your work could probably get into trouble for firing you because you had to see a doctor, Johnathan, you might want to check into that.
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Post by LexingtonPethead » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:05 am

johnathan wrote:I also have a problem with the insurance thing,We have no insurance because my work fired me while I was under Dr's care. I had to have surgery and didn't have it. Is that wrong of me? I don't think so you need to watch how you word stuff this subject is really touchy too some people in here know what i am talking about. I have to draw unemployment to help out with the bills and also have to pay for the surgery,which is now up to $9,000 and I still don't feel that great. I am gonna have to have something done again. So now do you all understand where i am coming from? I love this zone and all the people in it let's just calm down a little some new comers looking at the zone are gonna be like wow this is not cool. Anyway just my 2 cents worth. And still thanks for all the prayers for my wife and I.
I completely understand where you're coming from, Johnathan.

I have not always had insurance, and many times when I was younger, put off having dental work done among other things simply because I didn't want another bill I couldn't pay. It created consequences that I now have to live with.

And sometimes, companies will lay people off when they need medical attention just to keep the resulting expenses from jacking up their premiums the next year. I think that's wrong, but it does happen, unfortunately.

The original point about healthcare was that the statement was made that only the rich can afford it. That is simply not true.

We have world-class facilities and the best medical practitioners in the world. We develop medicines that are used all over the world for the common good. We are blessed like this because of capitalism. There is incentive to do research and develop life-saving and life-enhancing medications and procedures.

Yes, doctors make a lot of money. So do hospitals. Is it worth it? My daughter would have died after only a few weeks of life without her surgery. Was it worth it to me? You bet it was. I would have paid any amount to save her life... insurance or no insurance. Because of our American way of life and our capitalistic healthcare system, her life was spared.

In fact, there was an unmarried teenaged couple who had a baby with the same heart defect who underwent the same surgery at the same time Ashley did. They did not have insurance, yet their baby received the same medical attention as Ashley. The total bill was probably about $50,000.

Had we gone through this in a country with a healthcare system as bad as Canada's, I know we would have lost our little baby. If healthcare is free, it's probably worthless.

So this is a very touchy subject with me as well, Johnathan. I have walked in your shoes. I may well walk in your shoes again. Even though our system is flawed, it's the best there is.
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Post by Pethead1 » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:45 am

I need to have my knee replaced. I do not have that kind of money and I have no incurance. I have worked out a plan with my DR for regular office visets and my pain pills. ( which I do not like to take) but the price for the surgery is way too much to come to turms with. We have our own bussness and don't have the extra to pay a preamun yet.

I am always in pain ans a lot of the time I have to use a cane. I know as well as anybody that our system sometimes stinks. But I still do not think other people should pay to fix my knee. It is a confort thing and I will live with it. There are places to go for help with medacil bills from people who have the money and give it to places who can descide the greasted need.

Most hospitles will work with people if they are honsit and find a payment that fits.

If we had free health care you would have to wath months to see a DR and then whats the point?

I do not mean to come across as hateful, I have been on both sids of this and still would not trade our system for any other.
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Post by Shell » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:22 am

Sure, I'm looking forward to the second coming. But you might see what you call blood lust and desire for revenge a little differently if your country had been the one attacked.

Maybe the U.S. should withdraw all their troops, not worry about anything beyond patrolling our own borders, go ahead and let Hussein and Bin Laden do whatever they want and let everyone else cope with it.
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Post by executioner » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:26 am

RJ,

That is problem we have here, you think that in our minds the flag stands higher then our Lord, In my heart that is not the case. I am a Christian first and foremost, an American second. What would happen if the terrorists bombed something in Canada and killed a couple thousand innocent people? There comes a time when you have to stand up for whats right and say the U.S.A. is not going to take terrorists or Hussien killing innocent people anymore. It talks in the Old Testament about an eye for eye and i believe in my heart and Bush believes also that this one of these times. The comment about Israel that you made is also wrong. U.S. is the only thing holding Israel back from going in and desrtoying the Palenstian state. You recall the Six-Day War. The only thing holding from taking everybody out was the U.S. I believe some of the things that our government does is not right and the same thing with Israel, but I know one thing don't ever goes against Israel, because even though they have missed the mark they are still God's chosen people. You along with alot of people in the world have alot of hatred for us and I feel sorry for all of you because you all are NOT free like the U.S.A.
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Post by LexingtonPethead » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:07 pm

Previously, I referred to one of the hallmarks of liberalism being that of a permissive society that generally holds no accountability for wrongdoing (otherwise you would be imparting your morality on others).

RJ has apparently bought into that since he thinks we should have let Osama have another crack at hitting the U.S. with no retaliation.

Even Israel defended itself as God directed.
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Post by Shell » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:41 pm

I don't think anybody said we shouldn't pray for them.
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Post by LexingtonPethead » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:48 pm

Matthew RJ wrote:Calling me a permissive liberal was unfair.

I did not say Osama & others should be allowed to do what they want. I am simply saying: PRAY FOR THEM!


MY GOD - why will you not pray for those who hate you?
If you refuse, you are disobedient and sinful. Our Lord said in no uncertain terms: "Pray for those who hate you."

Repent and turn from sinful sinful hate. Do you need more Scripture to believe that hatred is sin?

Leviticus 19:17
"You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him."

Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred , discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This is the Word of the Lord
Thanks be to God!
I was merely stating that you have apparently been sucked into believing the rhetoric being spread by anti-war extremists, who are primarily liberal.

I do agree about praying for our enemies. We should do that. We should do more of it.

But likewise, you are assuming I hate my enemies, and that is unfair!

I suppose just because I don't want terrorists to kill any more, and I'm willing to support whatever it takes to keep them from killing means I hate them?

What in the world kind of logic is that???

Sounds like pacifism to me.
Last edited by LexingtonPethead on Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Pethead1 » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:32 pm

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I had

Post by executioner » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:45 pm

lexington you hit on the head. RJ is assuming something that is not true. I do not hate these terrorists, I hate their actions, and it seems that nobody but the U.S. is willing to stand for justice. I pray for everybody involved in the situation on a daily basis.
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Post by executioner » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:53 pm

Mathew,

After reading those 2 scriptures in your latest post, I agree with you, but that road has to go both ways. Do you honestly think that we can sit down a reason with these terrorists and/or Hussien? Please respond to the question I want to see your response. Also my version of Leviticus 19:17 says within reason. I believe there is no reasoning left in these animals.
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Re: rj

Post by LexingtonPethead » Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:02 pm

executioner wrote:Mathew,

After reading those 2 scriptures in your latest post, I agree with you, but that road has to go both ways. Do you honestly think that we can sit down a reason with these terrorists and/or Hussien? Please respond to the question I want to see your response. Also my version of Leviticus 19:17 says within reason. I believe there is no reasoning left in these animals.
Exe, this is exactly the point. These sub-humans understand only one thing: death. They hate freedom; they hate those who love freedom. They don't want to reason with us, or talk with us, or change us. What they do want to do is to KILL us.

To turn our backs and let them go about their business is tantamount to issuing death warrants on thousands more innocent people.

I hope RJ responds to your question.
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Post by executioner » Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:14 pm

Like I said I pray everyday for this situation, and I know many Americans do also.
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