Petra video shoot and TV show practices

[jeremywg]

I've read somewhere that back in the jonathan david brown days Bob wouldn't change the key he wrote the song in. Greg just had to pull it off. I don't know if things have changed but I've noticed over the last few gxv albums that Greg was keying it down almost to the point it didn't even sound like him anymore. And if we knew how much autotune is really used today we would all be bummed.

[brent]

Guys, just about EVERYBODY is using some form of editing, effects, time, frequency and note tuning manipulation some where, some how. It is just a matter of how obvious it is. Some people use it as a tool. Some people make it the focal point. Freakin' U2 would have no guitar without effects. Edge uses delays and all sorts of crap to make extremely simple and boring parts sound busy and "artistic". There are some rappers that use "hard" settings of Antares Autone to give a Vocoder like sound as part of their act. Where the heck is the talent of skill in that? They "ain't got no" talent or skill. As in all things, when the human chops are not obvious and must be covered up by technology, it is time to rethink the songs, the mix, the talent.

Personally, I use Melodyne over Antares Autotune. It sounds much, much better, and in many cases it is transparent. It all depends on what goes in to it. I use it to build parts that are not able to be re-cut by the artist, for whatever reason. In all things, I never create something that would never have been done if the artist was still available. After all, doing something drastic would completely change the whole direction of the tune. So, if I can't get time/money for backing vocals, and a song needs some, then I will create the parts in Melodyne. They are usually so far back in the mix, and it sounds like a natural progression, that it is accepted.

My least fav uses for all of this stuff is making the human voice sound un-natural, unless it is for a very short effect. For instance, in some of the dance music out there, vocal transients are sliced and snapped to a grid, so that everything is perfect. I hate that. Everyone knows that it is fake. I don't like extending a held note beyond the perceived singer's limits. Come on. Do we really believe that someone can dance and hold a vibrato-less note in perfect pitch for 8 seconds? Puh-lease.

There are limits to the technology. It will work well on Greg, because he has more of a pure tone voice, and not on John, because he has so much harmonic content (distortion, rasp) in his voice. However. The higher John goes, the cleaner he gets. It is easier to build backing vocals, john harmonizing with himself, when he is singing at the top end/his power range. Greg can be made to harmonize anywhere.

I love guitar harmonies in solos. The 80s had a lot of this stuff. It is great. I only do this live, because having a guitarist play it in real time in the studio always yields a fatter, bigger sound, because he cannot play it EXACTLY the same way twice, which is what we want, believe it or not. This is the reason most people's digital music today sounds thin and two dimensional. They are taking one source and duplicating it, processing it, etc. When you do that, it sucks. Reality is better. I like recording 40 tracks of REAL backing vocals, 24 tracks of REAL guitars, keys, etc. It makes for a huge sound if you pick the best of the best parts and know how to spread it all out so that it doesn't stomp on something else.

[rexreed]

Didn't Tom Scholz achieve that fat Boston guitar sound by playing the same part over and over close to exactly the same?

nm I just reread your post and was confused. I thought you were using tools to create the fat guitar sound.

[jonmcg93]

Didn't Tom Scholz achieve that fat Boston guitar sound by playing the same part over and over close to exactly the same?

Brian May did/does as well for the infamous "wire choir" sound he has on their older recordings.

Brent, you are a wise man sir and I love reading your posts. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that loves a crap ton of background vocal tracks. I've done a little editing (with Audition) removing the lead vocals on some of the older Petra songs and to hear some of "unheard" harmonies was amazing.

[brent]

Didn't Tom Scholz achieve that fat Boston guitar sound by playing the same part over and over close to exactly the same?

nm I just reread your post and was confused. I thought you were using tools to create the fat guitar sound.

OHHHHH MAAAAN. I LOVE Boston. If you can, read up or listen to anything Tom has to say about the production back then. It was the ulyimate in damage control. Too much to post. Yes, they played it all and sang it all.

[rexreed]

That debut album has to be about the most polished rock album I've ever heard. It's pretty complex, even for today and totally blew the other albums of the time away. I love the layer upon layer of guitar. What is the best produced Petra Album, in your opinion?

[bakersfieldpethead]

In my opinion the best "produced" would be "Wake-Up Call" with "Not of this World" also being there as well.

I think "This Means War" had the chance to be a real rocker if they would have left the electric drums out and placed a lot more guitar and bass in place of some of the keyboards.

[brent]

That debut album has to be about the most polished rock album I've ever heard. It's pretty complex, even for today and totally blew the other albums of the time away. I love the layer upon layer of guitar. What is the best produced Petra Album, in your opinion?

If we are talking sonics, Wake Up Call would be the beat produced IMO because it is REAL, organic. Those mixes will stand up to time.
NOTW is my fav from the Greg era. I know some of the history of how hard JDB and J Slick worked, which makes it even sweeter.

Now, this is not popular, but I think it is true. Beat The System is the best "produced" album of all. It would be comparable to Mutt Lange and Def Leppard on many, many levels. It allowed Petra to completely shift gears, change the industry, grow it's fan-base, play arenas, etc.

[brent]

I just watched the only youtube video I could find of the "taping", to view people's responses. The show was low volume, and it is funny to be able to hear people talking and singing over the band.

[bakersfieldpethead]

yeah i'm guessing Greg and the guys had their personal monitors turned up, cause that would have been distracting if the crowed could be heard over the music.

[rexreed]

I know that a couple of you guys really like Wake Up Call. For me it was pretty much a letdown starting with Midnight Oil, but not ending with Just Reach Out. JRO is just an awesome song and it sounds good too. I can't really argue with WUC being well produced, I just never liked the music as much as previous or later albums. I think weird sound effect intros were past their time like on Praying Man. Beyond Belief is my favorite album but I just can't list it as the best produced with the drums so high and fake. God Fixation sounded pretty good to me- there I said it... now you can all laugh at me.

[bakersfieldpethead]

I think weird sound effect intros were past their time like on Praying Man.

I don't know how you got that. Petra & D&K were not doing the effects during that time the way they did them in the 80s. As a matter of fact they were introducing the modern day effects in music, like dc Talk and others brought up later in the 90s.

John Lawry was leading the way in his programming.

I think Wake-Up Call woke the E-brothers up to the changes Petra was wanting to make to stay up to date. Because No Doubt dosn't sound like anything the e-brothers did in the earlier albums.

[rexreed]

When I gripe about the weird sound effect intros I am not referring to the song or music. It's that trash that is supposed to build of some atmosphere or something that really just adds another 30- 60 second before the song begins. Destiny is the absolute worst, but Praying man is second.

[bakersfieldpethead]

That's what I'm talking about too. That stuff was leading the new sound effect generation of the 90s.
That version of Praying Man is awesome with the intro.

[fcollazo]

I love those special effects intros. They make the songs more epic. TBTF is a classic in this regard. Pure Bob.