When did Petra's "downward slide" begin?

[St_Augustines_Pears]

Hoo boy...do I like starting controversy!

Although we all love Petra, it is common knowledge that Petra had been on a "downward slide" (in regards to lack of CCM radio airplay, album sales, concert attendance, etc.) over the past 8-10 years until JEKYLL & HYDE was released. But my question is...when and why did Petra's popularity start to decline?

Now, an easy scapegoat is the NO DOUBT album...Bob retired from touring, too many ballads on the CD, etc. But from what I remember, both "Think Twice" and "No Doubt" got healthy radio airplay (at least here in Iowa).

My opinion (and only my opinion) was that Petra tried a more modern "mellow" sound/musical direction in an attempt to garner more radio airplay. The three-album span of PETRA PRAISE 2, GOD FIXATION, and DOUBLE TAKE backfired tremendously...Petra did not gain new fans, and the musical shift alienated their long-time fanbase.

I am not saying those CDs are crap (see my thread in defense of GOD FIXATION...an album I love!), but I think Petra's attempt at a "new" sound was the reason for their slow decline.

Your thoughts...opinions...arguments?

[Secondwind]

No Doubt is where the throttle got pushed forward and the plane started going down. The next three albums did nothing to right the ship and the constant personel changes only made it worse. After that the touring slowed to a trickle and that makes a recipe for disaster. Thank goodness for Jeckyl and Hyde.

[beak]

Iowa? Where in Iowa? I live in Clinton Iowa right next to the muddy Mississippi. I remember seeing the "No Doubt" album cover and I thought, oh my gosh, no Bob Hartman! and then I thought, oh my gosh they all looked so depressed on the cover! I hated that album and just about cringed everytime another praise album came out. I didn't even finish listening to No doubt and I doubt I have listened to more than a song or two. I did buy God Fixation and though I didn't like it at first, I kept listening to it until I liked it ALOT. I saw Petra in Dubuque during Praise two and it was in a huge theatre and it was like empty! They played their heart out though, then all the "new" member flew away in the distance and I think that is actually when things really went bad. They didn't have keyboards then either but it wasn't any harder and that was a real let down at the time. I actually liked John's solo stuff and himself live better at the time than I did Petra. Tell me where in Iowa friend! BEAK

[PetraFan007]

They went on a downward slide around the time they sold out, Bob left, and grunge took over.

[rexreed]

I can give my perspective from Houston, TX. I first discovered Petra during the Beyond Belief album. I didn't see them live till after the Unseen Power album. They played the Sam Houston Coliseum with the Newsboys as the opening act. Full house, but after that I don't ever remember them playing in a regular, non church or Astroworld (Six Flags) venue with the same crowd as after Unseen Power. Other fans there told me it was the best concert to date, although after ON Fire the crowds were pretty good too. So, my extremely narrow view from here is that after Unseen Power things just weren't as bright for Petra. I remember the dissapointment that kids my age felt with Wake Up call. It sounded like a step back to us at the time. After that... well the lowest was when Double Take was released and no one I knew liked a single song! Eventually Petra was running around second billed.

[greenchili]

Well I hate to say it, but I'm kinda in agreement with secondwind for the most part. Unfortunately it was a combination of multiple things. But I'll go back one step...

No Doubt is where the throttle got pushed forward and the plane started going down. The next three albums did nothing to right the ship and the constant personel changes only made it worse. After that the touring slowed to a trickle and that makes a recipe for disaster. Thank goodness for Jeckyl and Hyde.

On "Wake Up Call" Bob began the process of giving up the songwriting, it was continued with "No Doubt" all the way to "God Fixation". Bob stopped touring on "No Doubt" so you have the personel change. Not only did he leave, but they lost John Lawry, and Ronny Cates.

Then there was all the personel problems/conflicts and if it was as bad as it sounds I'm sure this reflected on stage.

Then there was the inconsistency in their sound. It's like they were trying to re-invent themselves and never suceed. Petra Praise 2 was the only album during that time period that even came close to have a Petra "sound". Some of the interviews with John indicate that their primary target was youth and that they were noticing the fans attending their concerts were looking older.

I don't quite understand peoples obsession with youth. They act like once a person is an adult all of a sudden they become this super uber humans. People in their 20's have problems too and dont become instant experts on life. We need positive music with God inspired lyrics too.

Anyways I'll stop ranting but the last Petra concert I was present at was during their "Unseen Power" tour and at the time one would have never guessed what was to come.

But I do remember also around that time that alot of veteran christian artists seemed to be dissapearing. I could be wrong but it sounded like the record co's were dumping alot of christian artists at the time.

[AlwaysJohnLawryFan]

I know people are gonna disagree with me but I am going to put my opinion out here. When John Lawry left, I almost had no interests cause there wasn't no other keyboardist good as he was. But, when Bob left that one time, I really was down hearted. I didn't listen to Petra til Bob came back really. I listen some but not like I use to. It was not the same.

They kept changing band members just threw me off... It is hard to get use to new members... I like the current new members Greg and Paul.

[nyanks15]

well my first petra concert was the ON FIRE TOUR and i thought they were so great and the melody of john lawrey voice was great along with ronnie and the rest of the band,so i think when RONNIE AND JOHN LEFT that sound of petra wasnt there like iam used to...petra will always be petra but todays petra and 90's petra sound totally differnt..that is just my opion....i would love to see RONNIE,JOHN LAWREY,LOUIE BACK TOGETHER AGAIN,THERE is some much fire in ronnie and john...rock on [/b]

[AlwaysJohnLawryFan]

I think John Lawry has a wonderful singing voice. I got his media alert. I hear some people gave alot of negtive stuff about it. I love the keyboards but mainly I love his voice. Ronnie is so cool. I love that energy when he is moving around and playing that base. The background vocals they did sounded awesome.

[executioner]

No Doubt in my mind it is "No Doubt" I know of many die hard Petra fans that left when they heard No Doubt. It SUCKED! and still does today. I hate that album with a passion its NOT Petra. Like I said in a previous post about the Farewell album in that when Petra chose to put Think Twice in the rock medley and call it a classic man I was apalled and dismayed. That song does NOT stand up to any of those others in anyway shape or form. They could have picked another song from another album like Not By Sight, Bema Seat, Second Wind, Whole World, or alot of other classics that Petra has done.

[Petrapraise]

I can't imagine any fan of a band who would stop listening to Petra after one "bad" CD (in their minds).

[Preacherman777]

Basically, everything they released after Wake Up Call and Until Jekyll and Hyde, was not what they should have done. If No Doubt had been more of rock album on the measure of Beyond Belief or even Unseen Power, they would stayed much stronger. Petra Praise 2 was a good album, but it too, really should have had a stronger punch. Still, if ND had been a better album, PP2 would not have harmed them at all. God Fixation was actually a pretty good as well, but after doing a praise album, they really needed to kick it back up with a heavier album and again they failed to do that. Double Take was the mistake to end all mistakes. After two that were not as heavy as they needed to be, the last thing they needed to do was an uber mellow album, that turned a bunch of their classics into a lifeless, monotone borefest. This in my opinion was really where they jumped the shark as they say and I'm not sure that there was any good way to come back from that, but if there was, Revival certainly was not the answer. An ok album, but again, not heavy enough and absolutely no new songs from Bob Hartman. People noticed that and I think all too many decided that enough was enough.

By the time they finally released a true rocker again in the form of Jekyll and Hyde, all too many of the old fans were no longer even interested in hearing anything new from Petra. I did my dead level best to spread the word about the new album and I saw some old fans come back, but I also saw way too many who were not even interested in giving them a chance anymore.

Now, having said all of that, I still think that if they had persisted from here and continued to make albums as heavy and strong as Jekyll and Hyde was, they would have started to gain ground again.

Honestly, if Petra had made ND a heavier album, then released PP2, then released a heavier version of GF and then released Jekyll and Hyde, leaving the rest undone, I believe they would still be going strong today.

[charl]

My rambley answer:
Petra was popular before Ronny Cates or John Lawry even joined the group, so I would not say that their leaving was a major factor-though shifting membership in general probably was, as that makes for instability.

Someone said elswhere on the zone recently that perhaps the 87-91 period was the anomaly. I thought they had a point. Again, Petra was successful in the early 80's and their sound was anything but heavy at the time.

I do agree that there were multiple reasons-though to me it had mostly to do with PR. Bob's retirement was a big part of it, I don't think PR was handled well-so many of us thought he was gone all together and no Bob means no Petra. He should have been included in the photos for No Doubt.
The music scene also seemed to be changing at the time. I remember lamenting "all my favorite bands are dying or becoming crappy!" many of Petra's contemporaries were pushed out of the scene (I think Petra stuck around largely because they were stubborn ).
But it seems to me that the industry became much harder to succeed (or perhaps to fail) in. Even a band like Petra could not get away with one weak album, for the chosen method seems to be now that as soon as sales begin to slip, a group pretty much gets dropped right off the radar. There seems to be no cultivation of bands anymore, only a demand for instant and constant success.

Anyway, I think it is a testament to Petra and their fans that they survived the 90's, as the PR became not only bad, but non-existant. One had to search to find out anything about them, and many people just assumed the group was defunct. As I've said before, many's the person I've met who has not heard anything of them since the early 90's. I personally heard exactly one song within that period getting airplay of any kind around here.

That is but one of a myriad of problems that Petra faced, but I think one of the bigger ones.

[js3971]

they jumped the shark as they say

Speaking of "trivia", does anyone know where this phrase actually comes from?

[sue d.]

I've never heard that phrase before...

but maybe it comes from the '70s TV sitcom "Happy Days," where Fonzie is waterskiing in Hawaii - and jumps over a shark on skiis, to the cheers of all the babes standing by, holding their breath.