When did Petra's "downward slide" begin?

[Preacherman777]

The bigger thing though is that from No Doubt through Revival there are only four songs that bear the mark of "words and music by Bob Hartman" (More Than A Thousand Words, Think On These Things, The Holiest Name, If I Had To Die For Someone).

Actually, "If I had to die for somone" does not bear that mark. St. Augustines Pears is the only song from GF that bears that mark.

Petra Praise 2 actually contains three songs that bear that mark. They include Be of Good Cheer, Holiest Name and Lovely Lord.

And No Doubt also contains three such songs. They include More Than a Thousand Words, Right Place and Think On These Things.

That gives us a total of seven such songs in that span rather than four. Also, I am not as critical as some are of the songs that are co-written with other people. There are many songs not only from this time span, but also from the time span of TMW through BB that have that were co-written songs and those were some very popular albums. Any song that has Bob's name of both the lyrics and music, even though there may also be other names in there, are IMO true Bob Hartman songs. Though I will agree, the songs he writes all by himself are often among the better songs Petra has done.

I'd also like to say that I could not disagree more with those who are saying that Wake Up Call was not a very good album. IMO it was a much better album overall than Unseen Power was and it was the last really good album they did, up to the time of Jekyll and Hyde.

[js3971]

I've got to agree pretty much with Edward on this one. Petra had maintained their integrity and stong lyrics no matter what "style" they had. But they had changed styles in the past. When they started, they played a sound that was a 70s sound. Then when Greg Volz came aboard, they played an early 80s sound. When John Schlitt came, they moved to the later 80s sound. However, when the 90s came, they pretty much stayed with an 80s sound.

I think Petra could have played the 90s sound and played it well and still rocked the house without compromising who they were as individuals or as a band or ministry. They had done it before. When their style remained the same, they didn't pick up a new fan base. And when their music began to soften, they began to lose some of the fan base they already had. I knew a lot of people when I lived in El Paso who liked Petra, and their Beyond Belief concert there was packed. But quite a few of those same people didn't even like Unseen Power that much.

I liked Unseen Power, No Doubt and God Fixation. I like Wake Up Call too, but to me that album sounds less like Petra than any of them. I was really looking forward to that album too. When Brown Bannister produced White Heart's Freedom album, it was one of the best albums put out musically and lyrically. Now Petra had those already, but I guess I was expecting something different from that album with Bannister producing it.

People like Jekyll and Hyde because it rocks and it is a bit more like the style of today and it still sounds like Petra, and it doesn't compromise who they are in any way.

This is only my humble opinion of course.

[rexreed]

Plain ole rock music sort of taking a back seat to the "punk and grunge" styles was probably the biggest factor in the demise of Petra.

[PetFCtr]

I like Unseen Power much more than Wakeup Call. I love the song Sight Unseen.

[Mountain Man]

They went on a downward slide around the time they sold out, Bob left, and grunge took over.

Huh? What do you mean by "they sold out"?

[calicowriter]

Personally I find this whole conversation to be rather disturbing.

What exactly is a "downward slide"? From what point? The peak of their popularity? Surely no one is naive enough to think Petra would have been top dog forever. Maybe in the opinion of some, the music wasn't as appealing as it had been, the crowds weren't as large, the radio airplay wasn't as prevalent.

Were the people whose lives were changed, even saved, after listening to the "inferior Petra" (sans Bob) less important because they weren't in as great a number as they were at concerts in the early 90s? Was Bob wrong to follow what he felt was God's will to stop touring? Was John wrong to accept the responsibility for managing the touring aspect of Petra at Bob's request?

You know, I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but I'd be willing to bet that PP2, No Doubt, God Fixation, maybe even Double Take outsold the first several Petra albums from the 70s. But that doesn't make them inferior, even if they aren't your cup of tea.

I read somewhere not too long ago that the average span of success for a rock band is six years. No matter how you slice it or dice it, Petra was successful several times longer than that. No one could ever have predicted they would have lasted as long as they did. I think that is a fact to be celebrated.

In a "Perfect World", Petra will always be Number 1 -- with a bullet. But we ain't there yet.

[St_Augustines_Pears]

I agree with a lot of people's opinions stated on this thread about Petra's near-constant personnel changes as being a factor in Petra's decline...which started around the NO DOUBT album.

I remember reading an two-page interview with John Schlitt in HM magazine around the time GOD FIXATION was released. The interviewer asked John if it was still Petra, or was it a "John Schlitt solo band".

I distinctly remember the interview, because it had the band photo from the GOD FIXATION inner sleeve (where they are sitting in a diner). The John Schlitt interview was the only reason I bought the magazine!

[jimmye4563]

Personally I find this whole conversation to be rather disturbing.

What exactly is a "downward slide"? From what point? The peak of their popularity? Surely no one is naive enough to think Petra would have been top dog forever. Maybe in the opinion of some, the music wasn't as appealing as it had been, the crowds weren't as large, the radio airplay wasn't as prevalent.

Were the people whose lives were changed, even saved, after listening to the "inferior Petra" (sans Bob) less important because they weren't in as great a number as they were at concerts in the early 90s? Was Bob wrong to follow what he felt was God's will to stop touring? Was John wrong to accept the responsibility for managing the touring aspect of Petra at Bob's request?

You know, I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but I'd be willing to bet that PP2, No Doubt, God Fixation, maybe even Double Take outsold the first several Petra albums from the 70s. But that doesn't make them inferior, even if they aren't your cup of tea.

I read somewhere not too long ago that the average span of success for a rock band is six years. No matter how you slice it or dice it, Petra was successful several times longer than that. No one could ever have predicted they would have lasted as long as they did. I think that is a fact to be celebrated.

In a "Perfect World", Petra will always be Number 1 -- with a bullet. But we ain't there yet.

I agree with you. Petra has ALWAYS been and ALWAYS will be "The Christian Rock Band" for me. I've been listening to some of the "newer" bands and then I put in Petra--from ANY era of their history, and though I like them, those other bands just don't "cut it" (again, for me) compared to Petra. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Jim

[yamasaaaki har har]

I think we've all offered good points and to me this is a really interesting and worthwhile discussion.

I'm not as obscessed with Petra as I used to be several years ago (though I still AM A PETRA FAN to this day), but maybe that's a good thing, because back then I was strongly disillusioned about the weakening of their sound and popularity (and the constant lineup changes). I used to put too much hopes into the "Petheads' fantasy" - that they would become strong and popular again and stick around for many more years. But now I ponder what happened to Petra and think, sure the years have taken their toll - but this is expected for any rock band. "Downhill slides" have happened to the best of them. Name any popular classic 70's / 80's rock band (i.e. Def Leppard) and you can see that the pop-culture-change plague of the 90's and 2000's has struck their popularity as well, and in most cases the strength and "rockiness" of their more recent albums.

Nowadays I'm more accepting of Petra's decline and retirement, because I'm exceedingly thankful that they made the albums I love the most - and that they existed in the first place. I'm so thankful for the contributions they've made to my life and all of yours. Sure, like all of you, I may wish that they stayed popular, stayed with the 88-93 lineup, made more exciting albums during 95-01, and were still making more great albums to this day. But now I don't feel so pessimistic about Petra anymore, because to me, there are much more important things in life to be concerned about. Showing the love of Christ to everyone I come in contact with (saved and unsaved), praying for those people, staying in shape academically and financially - these things are more important for me to focus on than wishing my favorite bands had made more good albums. Although I still often struggle with being discontent, I've learned to have a good sense of humor about life and be more accepting of how things are.

[greenchili]

Hmmm as I pointed out in another thread I have very mixed feelings about all this. I don't think anyone is necessarily questioning the rightness of Bob's decision to stay home or John's to maintain the watch. Bottom line Bob's departure and lesser involvement played a good part in it. This does not make me respect him any less. Just stating opinions of the situations (and not the actions). But it still is an interesting question to discuss what exactly happened.

Personally I think they coulda got another good 5-7 years from "Wake Up Call" on out. At least compared to what they released.

And it is true. Most groups are lucky to release 1,2, or even 3 high quality albums and Petra has managed to crank out a good 10 or more which is very rare. But I still see a couple christian groups plugging away and hitting that 10+ mark.

[executioner]

Hmmm as I pointed out in another thread I have very mixed feelings about all this. I don't think anyone is necessarily questioning the rightness of Bob's decision to stay home or John's to maintain the watch. Bottom line Bob's departure and lesser involvement played a good part in it. This does not make me respect him any less. Just stating opinions of the situations (and not the actions). But it still is an interesting question to discuss what exactly happened.

Personally I think they coulda got another good 5-7 years from "Wake Up Call" on out. At least compared to what they released.

And it is true. Most groups are lucky to release 1,2, or even 3 high quality albums and Petra has managed to crank out a good 10 or more which is very rare. But I still see a couple christian groups plugging away and hitting that 10+ mark.

I know there is Amy Grant and MWS that has had staying power but name some others in the Christian market that are still around with 10+ albums.

[Jonathan]

You gotta applaud his decision to reconnect with his family though.

[Edward]

Yeah. Sleeping with Louie, John and the other guys on a bus, seeing the great alleys and dumpsters of America's fine theaters, or being home with mom and the boy, eating home cooked meals, etc. Hard decision to make.

[PetFCtr]

Personally I find this whole conversation to be rather disturbing.

What exactly is a "downward slide"? From what point? The peak of their popularity? Surely no one is naive enough to think Petra would have been top dog forever. Maybe in the opinion of some, the music wasn't as appealing as it had been, the crowds weren't as large, the radio airplay wasn't as prevalent.

Were the people whose lives were changed, even saved, after listening to the "inferior Petra" (sans Bob) less important because they weren't in as great a number as they were at concerts in the early 90s? Was Bob wrong to follow what he felt was God's will to stop touring? Was John wrong to accept the responsibility for managing the touring aspect of Petra at Bob's request?

You know, I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but I'd be willing to bet that PP2, No Doubt, God Fixation, maybe even Double Take outsold the first several Petra albums from the 70s. But that doesn't make them inferior, even if they aren't your cup of tea.

I read somewhere not too long ago that the average span of success for a rock band is six years. No matter how you slice it or dice it, Petra was successful several times longer than that. No one could ever have predicted they would have lasted as long as they did. I think that is a fact to be celebrated.

In a "Perfect World", Petra will always be Number 1 -- with a bullet. But we ain't there yet.

I agree with you. Petra has ALWAYS been and ALWAYS will be "The Christian Rock Band" for me. I've been listening to some of the "newer" bands and then I put in Petra--from ANY era of their history, and though I like them, those other bands just don't "cut it" (again, for me) compared to Petra. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Jim

I agree with you.

[unlost]

either when Volz was replaced by Schlitt or when Farewell ended