John @ Chrystal Cathedral

p-freak · Post by **p-freak** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:20 am

When will this air? It is already advertized on the frontpage of ChrystalCathedral.org, but they're airing a program with David Phelps and some other guy.

SkyCaptain · Post by **SkyCaptain** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:14 pm

Oh wow! I never thought former members of Petra and Korn would be on the same stage together! God has definitely worked in Brian Welch's life in the last few years. I really want to know when this will air too!

Mark

BForm · Post by **BForm** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:16 pm

Uhhhh...am I the only one who is disturbed by the idea that John is going be on the platform with Robert Schuller? Please tell me this is not a worship service but someone is just renting the building!!!!

Robert Schuller is an enemy of the gospel and a heretic. I have heard and read in his books where he has denied the substitionary atonement of Christ. He does not see mankind as sinful and in need of salvation but believes man's problem is that low self esteem prevents the good that is in him from being brought out. In fact, he once said that the Christian teaching that man was depraved and in need of being saved is the greatest crime that Christians have committed agains humanity.

BForm · Post by **BForm** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:34 pm

Well, I just confirmed it. Not one, but two worship services side by side with an enemy of the cross.

John, Sue, I'm really not trying to be mean. Please, please, please review what this man has written and said. It's all over the internet. It's all throughout his books. When John takes the stage to partake in "worship", he will be participating in the worship of a false Christ of another "gospel", which is no gospel at all. There is absolutely no justification for this. I don't care how many people will be "reached". This is not God honoring.

I'll be praying you'll do the right thing.

BForm · Post by **BForm** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:46 pm

Oh Wow! I didn't realize this happened this morning. I really feel sick to my stomach. I do not understand how Christians don't know about this guy. I've been aware of his heresies since the mid 80's. I guess this is the result of years of soft, light hearted teaching from our pulpits.

executioner · Post by **executioner** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:55 pm

I know of Robert Shuller but do not know anything about him, so I'm not passing judgment in this area.

brent · Post by **brent** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:47 pm

Both father and son are nuts. They do not preach the full Gospel of Christ. They are heretics.

I was noticing that the son and his family were on some reality show. His daughters were not Christian young ladies in action. The man used a curse word or two as well. I will try to research that and find out what channel that was on.

You the Word. If the man cannot rule his own house....

p-freak · Post by **p-freak** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:53 am

Yeah, I also have my doubt about the Schuller family. But you might also consider this as an opportunity for John to share the truth. Hour of Power is extremely well-viewed all over the world. It's even televised weekly in the Netherlands. Currently they're selling The Grafting from their webstore, so many blessings and truth for anyone who picks one up through the Crystal Cathedral.

Still no idea when this is gonna air, though.

calicowriter · Post by **calicowriter** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:34 am

Don't you think you need to give the Holy Spirit a little credit?

If someone is sincerely seeking God, He will lead them to the right path. In my personal journey, the first church I went to after discovering PETRA seemed nice enough, but after I went to a couple of Bible studies, I heard some things that just didn't set right in my spirit. So, I moved on.

I see God as a Fisher of Men, like Jesus commissioned Peter. And what do fishermen do? They cast a wide net, then gather the fish together in the boat, as Jesus gathers us to Himself.

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:22 am

I'm pretty sure that that is the church my uncle interned at after getting his Youth Pastor degree. Scary stuff.

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:48 am

Here are some fun, heretical quotes from Schuller:

"I don't think anything has been done in the name of Christ and under the banner of Christianity that has proven more destructive to human personality and, hence, counterproductive to the evangelism enterprise than the often crude, uncouth, and unchristian strategy of attempting to make people aware of their lost and sinful condition."

"If the gospel of Jesus Christ can be proclaimed as a theology of self-esteem, imagine the health this could generate in society!"

"I may not deserve it [salvation] but I am worth it so don't say that I am unworthy."

http://reformedevangelist.com/?p=33

He sounds like a nice guy, but not someone I'd want preaching the Word of God. He and the Joel Osteen's of the world would be better off doing self help programs like Dr. Phil rather than completely rewriting the Gospel.

sue d. · Post by **sue d.** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:10 am

It's TENTATIVELY set to air the weekend of July 12-13.

Since I don't know much about the Schullers or their theology, I'm refraining from making any further comments. Yes, I've heard OF them but do not know much above that.

As far as the quotes, I would like to see these IN context.

separateunion · Post by **separateunion** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:49 am

Those are simply quotes I could pull off the internet by doing a quick search. You'd have to read one of his books to get the more heretical quotes in context. I don't have any on hand, but like I said, my uncle interned at the church and believes many of the same heretical doctrines that are implied by the quotes I posted, so I'm going to err on the side of "Schuller is a heretic".

executioner · Post by **executioner** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:13 am

separateunion wrote:Those are simply quotes I could pull off the internet by doing a quick search. You'd have to read one of his books to get the more heretical quotes in context. I don't have any on hand, but like I said, my uncle interned at the church and believes many of the same heretical doctrines that are implied by the quotes I posted, so I'm going to err on the side of "Schuller is a heretic".

If this is the case then I would have to side on this being a grievous error on John's part. Is that John is so desparate for dates to get the word out about his new release? I don't know all the facts, but if this guy(church) is a heretic, then I would have to ask John whats up man?
I don't really know if this means anything to any of you, But I know the SBC and Assembly of God have both denounce Shuller has being of nonchristian faith, and someone to stay away from. They put him in the same paragraphs and writings with the Morman Church and Jehovah Witness.

imc · Post by **imc** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:38 am

separateunion wrote: "I don't think anything has been done in the name of Christ and under the banner of Christianity that has proven more destructive to human personality and, hence, counterproductive to the evangelism enterprise than the often crude, uncouth, and unchristian strategy of attempting to make people aware of their lost and sinful condition."

To be fair, that quote is damning enough with or without context. The others I can see could be taken differently depending on how they were used - but if he genuinely has said the above, it's a fairly stand alone quote - I can't see how context could make any difference!

The Petra Zone

John @ Chrystal Cathedral

John @ Chrystal Cathedral

Robert Schuller?

"Worship"?

Duh!

i

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