John @ Chrystal Cathedral

[gman]

I don't see the 2 John passage as applying here. It originally warned a specific group of believers about not welcoming false teachers. It doesn't speak to the reverse situation, which is where true believers should or shouldn't go in preaching truth. Meaning, churches shouldn't have fellowship with Shuller, or allow his teaching into the church, but there is nothing against taking the truth to Shuller or his church. Paul and others did this.

[Shell]

Excuse me while I go off topic just a bit--Julie! Long time no hear from. E-mail me when you get a chance and let me know how you're doing.

Back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

[BForm]

Well, I'll say it one more time then I'm going to bow out of this one. Gman, you're right. I'm pretty sure Jesus, Paul and all of the apostles would have accepted an opportunity to preach anywhere (before kings, Jewish leaders, outside pagan temples, etc., etc.). However, I'm also sure there would have been a stark contrast between what they spoke and the lies that were being taught around them.

Let me ask it this way. Consider how Paul spoke about those who were teaching that we must trust Christ but also obey all of the Jewish code. Can you imagine him being invited to speak at one of their conventions, warmly walking out on stage, greeting them like they are friends, and then procede to give a message that did not confront their lies? Had he done that he would have, as the passage in 2 John stated, shared in their shame. I cannot even conceive of Paul accepting that invitation without putting his finger directly onto their heretical lies.

I could not ever imagine Paul welcoming them in his home, giving them a warm greeting on the street, or stepping out onto their stage in a warm brotherly fashion giving the appearance that there was no dispute. I believe he would "avoid even the appearance of evil".

[executioner]

Well, I'll say it one more time then I'm going to bow out of this one. Gman, you're right. I'm pretty sure Jesus, Paul and all of the apostles would have accepted an opportunity to preach anywhere (before kings, Jewish leaders, outside pagan temples, etc., etc.). However, I'm also sure there would have been a stark contrast between what they spoke and the lies that were being taught around them.

Let me ask it this way. Consider how Paul spoke about those who were teaching that we must trust Christ but also obey all of the Jewish code. Can you imagine him being invited to speak at one of their conventions, warmly walking out on stage, greeting them like they are friends, and then procede to give a message that did not confront their lies? Had he done that he would have, as the passage in 2 John stated, shared in their shame. I cannot even conceive of Paul accepting that invitation without putting his finger directly onto their heretical lies.

I could not ever imagine Paul welcoming them in his home, giving them a warm greeting on the street, or stepping out onto their stage in a warm brotherly fashion giving the appearance that there was no dispute. I believe he would "avoid even the appearance of evil".

I think what Bform is trying to say is John had to water down his message to conform too the congeration he was speaking too. Do you think Paul or Peter would have done that?

[cndfogie]

This is giving me one bad case of Nausea, Heartburn, Indigestion, Upset Stomach, Diarrhea. Where is that Pepto Bismol

[executioner]

This is giving me one bad case of Nausea, Heartburn, Indigestion, Upset Stomach, Diarrhea. Where is that Pepto Bismol

I know this is how I feel about John performing at that so called church.

[brent]

Holy crap. Someone get out the magic cyberspace keys and do the old lockee lockee.

[74CAPethead]

I was there the day John sang!

These are all the songs that were sung at the service. How could you not see the Gospel in Only Men? John was invited to sing one song not to debate Schuller’s bad theology, especially since John didn’t even know what Schuller’s beliefs were in this regard, he went in there assuming that Robert Schuller was orthodox.

Joyful, Joyful, We Adore You

Joyful, joyful, we adore You, God of glory, Lord of love;
Hearts unfold like flowers before You, opening to the sun above.
Melt the clouds of sin and sadness; drive the dark of doubt away;
Giver of immortal gladness, fill us with the light of day.

L. van Beethoven; arr. J. Carl

O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing
O for a thousand tongues to sing my great Redeemer’s praise,
The glories of my God and King, the triumphs of His grace.

Jesus, the name that calms my fears, that bid my sorrows cease:
It’s music to my list’ning ears of life and health and peace.

He speaks, and list’ning to His voice, new life the dead receive;
The mournful, broken hearts rejoice; the humble poor believe.

C. Wesley; C. Glaser


Blessed Assurance, Jesus Is Mine!
Blessed assurance, Jesus is Mine! O, what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchase of God, Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.
This is my story, this is my song, Praising my Savior all the day long;
This is my story, this is my song, Praising my Savior all the day long.

F.J. Crosby; P.P. Knapp

Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty
Holy! Holy! Holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee.
Holy! Holy! Holy! Merciful and Mighty!
God in three persons, blessed Trinity!

R. Heber; J.B. Dykes

My Hope is Built on Nothing Less
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus’ love and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus’ name.
On Christ the solid Rock I stand; all other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.

E. Mote; W. Bradbury


Only Men
John Schlitt
Words and Music by Dan Needham

How could a face in history
Put a flame inside of me?
A carpenter, the writer of eternity
Some prophets claimed to do the same
They offered hope another way
They died, we buried them
But did they rise again?
Ooh, from age to age You never change
Ooh, You’re the Name above all names

A hundred thousand years ago and now
You are standing by Yourself
You’re the Holy One
And all that were are dead and gone
Though many try to take Your throne away
They will do it all in vain
‘Cause the world will see
That You are God, and they are only men

A Father’s Son, a love divine
Would reach across the great divide
To pay the price, a broken man would set us free
No other name, no other way
Can ever claim to do the same
It all comes down to trusting
In what you cannot see
Ooh, from age to age You never change
Ooh, You’re the Name above all names

That you are God and they are only
Men designed to love, adore you
They will bow right down before You
All created for Your pleasure
They will worship

A thousand more eternities from now
You will still be by Yourself
You’re the Only One
And all that were are dead and gone
Though many try to take Your throne away
They will do it all in vain
‘Cause the world will see
That You are God and they are only men
That You are God and they are only, they are only men
You are God and they are only men

[separateunion]

Holy crap. Someone get out the magic cyberspace keys and do the old lockee lockee.

I am on vacation and am only able to pop in here once every few days. Hope the board doesn't go to hell before I get back...

[executioner]

Holy crap. Someone get out the magic cyberspace keys and do the old lockee lockee.

I am on vacation and am only able to pop in here once every few days. Hope the board doesn't go to hell before I get back...

It looks like we are on our way!!!!!

[Jonathan]

Jason, you comin' over or what?

[separateunion]

Jason, you comin' over or what?

Eh, probably not. I don't think I have time to make it downstate. *sigh*

[Dan]

Holy crap. Someone get out the magic cyberspace keys and do the old lockee lockee.

locked