BTTR Must Be Selling Well

[brent]

The music is the stuff we sell, we don't go into the studio to manufacture a CD, Sony, Maxell, Memorex, Virbatem, makes and sells CDs. The artists sells the Music, the songs, the production. That is what the artist and record labels own.

MP3 is an audio-specific format that was designed by the Moving Picture Experts Group as part of its MPEG-1 standard and later extended in MPEG-2 standard.

Just as CDs, Cassettes, Reel to Reel, Lps, 8-track and the Wire were all AUDIO Specific Formats. Nothing is free. Just as you pay to have CDs to put your music on, you pay for the technology to convert your music to mp3s or any other digital format. CDA is a digital format. ipods, zunes and other mp3 players all have to be payed for, just like a CD Player, Cassette Player and Turn Table. The music you hear is the product. The format in which you hear it is the the way it is delivered to you.

Actually, MPEG is an organization with different standards, just like AES (Audio Engineering Society). They don't develop anything themselves. The MP3 was developed by the German company Fraunhofer-Gesellshaft who licenses it to everyone, or in this case allows it to be used.

[Preacherman777]

I would have to disagree that there is no good music being offered for free. That's why I encouraged the illegal downloaders to stick with the free sites if they want free music. It may not be the popular music of the time, but this doesn't mean it's not good music.

[sue d.]

Re: you killing Petra. If you were downloading free Petra music, you contributed to their demise. Why? Lack of sales. Lack of sales is the reason Petra had to quit. So, if you were stealing, you contributed in some way.

Lack of sales, along with a number of other factors, DO contribute to the end of a musician making music. Absolutely.

Here is a modern day current scenario: John Schlitt also has solo music out there, and would LOVE to put out more albums. As with Petra, people download off of free sites, do not buy and therefore create a cash flow problem for the artist.

The artist has already put up thousands of dollars to create a product in order to sell it and make a living. While CD sales are only part of the income made from music, it IS income nonetheless.

Why would anyone continue to invest their own money and then not make anything back in order to continue to make MORE music, only to lose money? It doesn't make financial sense.... any financial advisor would say 'knock it off and get a day job.'

Hence, in the long run/big picture: downloading for free = less or no income for artist = no more music from that artist.... eventually.

[bakersfieldpethead]

I wonder how long Petra would have lasted had this been an issue in the early 1990s, would they be in the GMA Hall of Fame today if they had to quit in 1991 due to people downloading their music for free?

I wonder how many bands have missed their part in musical history because of people's lust for the music so much that they have to search ways to download it free. It's really simple, if you can't afford it, you don't need it, don't get it.

I also have a problem with downloading out of print albums, because those albums are still owned by the copywrite owner and if there is enough demand they'll re-issue it, but if everyone is already getting it for free there would be no market for them to make money on it again.

[blayze5150]

I wonder how long Petra would have lasted had this been an issue in the early 1990s, would they be in the GMA Hall of Fame today if they had to quit in 1991 due to people downloading their music for free?

I wonder how many bands have missed their part in musical history because of people's lust for the music so much that they have to search ways to download it free. It's really simple, if you can't afford it, you don't need it, don't get it.

I also have a problem with downloading out of print albums, because those albums are still owned by the copywrite owner and if there is enough demand they'll re-issue it, but if everyone is already getting it for free there would be no market for them to make money on it again.

I see your point about the OOP albums. I just wish record companies would make some of the stuff available. The only reason I downloaded the Steve Taylor albums is because at the time he stated in interviews that he was okay with it. He had tried to buy his music from the record companies, and couldn't get them himself (which is kinda weird... don't really know how that stuff works). I kinda feel bad about it, though, because you can get some of his stuff on amazon now. I actually bought everything I could find at the time on Ebay. In my defense, I do have all the records... and he said it was cool. Who knew? For the most part I stay away from all of it. Not only is it stealing... I'm afraid of getting a virus on my computer! As far as free downloads, remember when Weird Al put "You're Pitiful" on his website for free. That was an awesome free download!

[Jonathan]

What's the overhead for a record company to put up an out of print album online? And who do I pay for what I download that I cannot find for legit purchase anywhere? What if I try to contact the copyright owner of the music, and all I can find is "[email protected]?" What if I give a CD to a friend, and that friend sells it?

[bakersfieldpethead]

What's the overhead for a record company to put up an out of print album online?

record companies have to pay studio time for remastering, and fees to places like itunes etc.

And who do I pay for what I download that I cannot find for legit purchase anywhere?

itunes, amazon, zune store, the artists, are all legit places for purchasing music. Very simple. If you can not find a place to purchase it, downloading it free is stealing so do without it until it's re-issued from a legit source.

What if I try to contact the copyright owner of the music, and all I can find is "[email protected]?

email it and if it's the wrong person, then find a used copy on ebay or somewhere and be happy with that format

What if I give a CD to a friend, and that friend sells it?

selling used CDs isn't a crime unless your city or state requires you to have a permit, so get a permit. Many stores out there will buy used CDs also.

[Masada1]

Interesting article today in light of the discussion regarding the legality of downloading music without paying for it. Seems like its not so gray an area after all.

http://music-mix.ew.com/2010/11/29/supr ... ownloading

[separateunion]

Again, I wasn't downloading Petra music. I never did as long as they were an active band, and I never will for any new albums they put out in any incarnation. So, no, I never contributed to Petra's demise (and anyone who argues that illegal downloading is the reason Petra became obsolete is deluding themselves). Thanks for continuing to attempt to defame me, though. I'm pretty sure there's a scripture about that. Maybe even a commandment.

I'm done with this conversation. You can't have a discussion when no one wants to consider someone else's point of view.

[brent]

What's the overhead for a record company to put up an out of print album online? And who do I pay for what I download that I cannot find for legit purchase anywhere? What if I try to contact the copyright owner of the music, and all I can find is "[email protected]?" What if I give a CD to a friend, and that friend sells it?

There are plenty of places that sell new old stock and have arrangements with labels and artists to reprint masters, copies of masters, clean vinyl and CDs. There is a huge used CD industry. I find many good treasures in college towns, where the average person is likely not buying Christian music.

Re: labels and expenses...there is no definitive answer. It is most generally determined by the condition of the assets, the production expenses, royalties, placement, marketing, and projected sales. In many cases, it is simply not worth a label's time and resources to release anything that will not sell 10k units or more. That is a golden number I have heard over the last five years. There are Christian artists that barely sell 10k now. The median is about 40k units. Unless the artist is out promoting and touring, creating a demand for the old stuff, most labels will not do it. Since downloads pay an artist and label less than tracks per CD, there just isn't much incentive.

[bakersfieldpethead]

Guess you guys are having fun with your circle jerk of hating on people who download music. Whatever. I have no issues with it, and no amount of bashing is going to make me stop doing it.

I'm done with this conversation. You can't have a discussion when no one wants to consider someone else's point of view.

Hmmm, interesting. Seems as if you jumped into this thing all your own SU, no one was saying anything about you, until you posted something; and in a very defensive way might I add. You're the one that came out swinging on this thread and expected everyone just to deal with it.

I don't see how someone can take what I do and Brent does for a living and decide it's not the same as someone making a cabinet or a car or whatever, it's what we do for a living, it's our job, If we don't sell music then we don't eat. Many artists out there are the same way. I just can't wrap my mind around this anymore; I don't see how you can just make that choice and decide I'm wrong for feeling the way I do.

No apparently no one can have a discussion when YOU don't consider other peoples feelings on the matter, or someone else’s point of view. Don't start trying to slam us on how we feel about it when you are the one doing the swinging.

[rexreed]

Too many problems with the way this thread has turned out.