John no longer with Petra?

[SCJ-7]

1. Remember one thing: Facebook and Wikipedia are not the official pages of Petra. The information posted on those webpages could be true... or could be false...
2 .John Schlitt is the Official Lead Singer of Petra.
3. Mr. Bob Hartman is involved in Classic Petra and Petra. That means that both lineups are the two arms of the same body and I think that's good for the band.

4.brent wrote:
The burning desire to know all of the last minute details of the band is all consuming. They are taking longer than expected to reveal information and the whole thing is in the toilet? Sweet.

Man, he is completely right. What's happening here? Why we don't have more information? Petra is back, that's good and for years they have played the best Christian Music but if they want to be really back in the business they need to use the common sense. And the common sense say that to sell a product you need to market it! In the Classic Petra page we have some vague information and a Biography of the Band. No more. Again: What's happening here?

[Jonathan]

[CatNamedManny]

Wikipedia has been constantly trash by trolls; eg. the Petra members section has the classic lineup as current. Which we all know when it comes to the Petra band it's Schlitt, Hartman, Bailey, Simmons. Classic Petra has no dates yet. Petra has 4 dates this year 2 that are next month.

If anyone can battle the trolls and fix wikipedia, please be my hero.

I've multiple times asked for help and/or guidance on how the Wikipedia page should handle the dual versions of Petra performing basically simultaneously. At the moment, given that Classic Petra has a website and stated plans for new albums and a full-fledged tour, I've classified them as the "current" members while keeping the picture of the band from 2005 and captioning it as the members of Petra when the band retired, so that both versions are within close proximity in the same infobox. The article of course mentions that the "retired" Petra has reunited for shows since 2005 and plans more reunions in 2010. I have received essentially zero feedback on this, so color me surprised by the anger seemingly evident in the above post, given the opportunities (including a dedicated Wikipedia page thread) for comment on this board.

And the page is not meant to be advertisement for future tour dates. You will see no band pages on Wikipedia worth their salt with details about tours, beyond general descriptions regarding length and destination, so don't be surprised that Petra's doesn't either. It's an encyclopedia entry, not a fansite.

I've fairly immersed myself in the history of the Petra Wikipedia page, and frankly the word "troll" is completely inaccurate for the various changes that were made to make it more professional before I took over to rewrite it (which vacation and sick children have conspired to put on hold for a couple weeks, in case anyone is actually following the progress and/or cares). If you disagree about the content that was changed in the past (or more recently), I created a thread to discuss that so we can try to reach a consensus about how to edit the page going forward, but throwing around flame-bait words and phrases like "trash[ed] by trolls" is decidedly unhelpful.

[Shell]

I don't think that comment was directed at any one person, Manny; you can't take all this Internet stuff too personally. I think it's great you're working on the wikipedia Petra page, and I'm sure you're keeping the information as accurate as you can. I'd be more helpful if I could but I wouldn't be able to provide anything that isn't already there.

Just do the best you can and don't worry about snarkiness. It will drive you crazy if you do.

[onyx]

Hi Manny,

I think the Wiki page is a great idea and I'm sure you're doing your best to keep the info accurate. I'm new here (although I've read the boards for a while and been a Petra fan since '81), so I may not have seen it if you've addressed this, but have you contacted the band or their managment and asked for an interview or some official information to post? With the new tour and John's tour this summer, I bet they'd appreciate having accurate info out there. I for one would like to know more about Mark Kelly (it's his birthday today, btw). He's the only member of Classic Petra that hasn't been heard from in the last 20 years. It would be great if someone could find some new info about him and the other guys as well.

[Dan]

Wikipedia has been constantly trash by trolls; eg. the Petra members section has the classic lineup as current. Which we all know when it comes to the Petra band it's Schlitt, Hartman, Bailey, Simmons. Classic Petra has no dates yet. Petra has 4 dates this year 2 that are next month.

If anyone can battle the trolls and fix wikipedia, please be my hero.

I've multiple times asked for help and/or guidance on how the Wikipedia page should handle the dual versions of Petra performing basically simultaneously. At the moment, given that Classic Petra has a website and stated plans for new albums and a full-fledged tour, I've classified them as the "current" members while keeping the picture of the band from 2005 and captioning it as the members of Petra when the band retired, so that both versions are within close proximity in the same infobox. The article of course mentions that the "retired" Petra has reunited for shows since 2005 and plans more reunions in 2010. I have received essentially zero feedback on this, so color me surprised by the anger seemingly evident in the above post, given the opportunities (including a dedicated Wikipedia page thread) for comment on this board.

And the page is not meant to be advertisement for future tour dates. You will see no band pages on Wikipedia worth their salt with details about tours, beyond general descriptions regarding length and destination, so don't be surprised that Petra's doesn't either. It's an encyclopedia entry, not a fansite.

I've fairly immersed myself in the history of the Petra Wikipedia page, and frankly the word "troll" is completely inaccurate for the various changes that were made to make it more professional before I took over to rewrite it (which vacation and sick children have conspired to put on hold for a couple weeks, in case anyone is actually following the progress and/or cares). If you disagree about the content that was changed in the past (or more recently), I created a thread to discuss that so we can try to reach a consensus about how to edit the page going forward, but throwing around flame-bait words and phrases like "trash[ed] by trolls" is decidedly unhelpful.

[sue d.]

I have received essentially zero feedback on this

Not quite true... on the original thread about this, I DID state (and I'll say it again) that listing one set of members and showing a photo of another is confusing.

You have a caption that reads: "The final members of Petra, in 2003 (l-r)". Even though the photo is from 2003, perhaps it should read 2005 - since that was the last incarnation of the band.

On another note: if Classic Petra truly is a trademarked name, as was stated by someone in a different thread, then the word "Petra" refers to the most recent version (i.e. Farewell Tour) and "Classic Petra" refers to the 1985 lineup.

While I've not had time to read the whole Wiki page, I do applaud your efforts - I know keeping a history log like this is a BIG job!

[brent]

This is all silly. It is what it is. It IS Petra. Not having John in it doesn't make it any less. Having Greg in it doesn't make it any more classic. Anything Bob is in is Petra. The lead singers determine the era/version, like BC and AD (don't read anything into the association with BC = Greg and AD = John, although that is kinda funny).

[fcollazo]

Brent was right before, we are so spoiled with the web that we expect right up to the minute gossip at aour fingertips. We are behaving like bloggers, waiting to jump to post the latest news in our pajamas on the basement. There was a time when we all had was the Battle Plan news letter. Now we want it all, don't we?

[CatNamedManny]

This is all silly. It is what it is. It IS Petra. Not having John in it doesn't make it any less. Having Greg in it doesn't make it any more classic. Anything Bob is in is Petra. The lead singers determine the era/version, like BC and AD (don't read anything into the association with BC = Greg and AD = John, although that is kinda funny).

I'm inclined to agree with this. It's not as if the Classic Petra lineup never existed. It's a reunion of a legitimate Petra lineup -- the lineup that appeared on the band's first live album, fwiw. Reunions of the Farewell Petra lineup are equally legitimate. I'm at the place now where I'm not sure there is a way to account for this unique situation without confusion for the casual observer. Has there ever been a band with two lineups performing at the same time? It's ridiculous, in a funny and cool kind of way.

Back to the Wiki, I think we have to account for the fact that there are two Petras performing simultaneously. Putting all the members from both iterations in one list would be the most confusing option possible. There's no reason to say Farewell Petra is the "current" band when it's playing fewer shows and has no plans to release any albums ever, never mind this year. So Classic Petra it is, with at least some acknowledgment that it's a different iteration than the band that played on Petra's last album and full-fledged tour (via the picture). We're probably just going to have to get used to the confusion because, let's face it, for someone who isn't a big-time Petra fan, this is a legitimately confusing situation.

Or we can just put up a big picture of Bob with the caption: "PETRA". And then take No Doubt, God Fixation and Double Take off the discography.

[pmal]

Or we can just put up a big picture of Bob with the caption: "PETRA". And then take No Doubt, God Fixation and Double Take off the discography.

ROTFLMBO!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~

[Preacherman777]

My personal impression about all this fussing and nay saying has amounted to one thing and one thing only. I have come to believe that there are certain people here who do not wish to see Petra succeed in any way if John is not the lead singer. There are many people here are loyal in the extreme to John and while that's nice on one hand, it becomes sort of pathetic on the other. Some of the comments I have seen on here have honestly given me the impression that there are some here who are honestly hoping that Classic Petra is a failure. Why? I can only guess that it's because they hold so much resentment over the fact that John is not involved. But if Petra can be used by God should it matter who is involved? I think some are just taking all of this way too personally. Perhaps there are simply some out there right now, who are in positions to make it happen, who believe that Classic Petra is simply more marketable right now than the Petra we knew in recent years. Obviously, someone is putting some money behind this that they were not willing to put behind the farewell version. So let it play it's course and see what happens. Judge it when it is said and done and the proof is on the table, but trying to judge it now with our limited perspective and information is just taking pot shots in the dark. Get over yourselves people and trust God already. I suggested we should be praying for the success of Classic Petra and I got one AMEN to that, though over 100 people looked at it. How discouraging is that? All I can say is I hope to God that none of the members of Classic Petra are checking in on what goes on here, cuz if these are the fans and this is the support they can count on from the PETHEADS, well, it's pretty darn sad if you ask me. We should be excited and praying and doing whatever we can to help promote this thing and generate excitement among others, but no, many of us are spending most of our time predicting failure. I mean are we concerned at all with what God may be doing here or are we too busy worshiping our idols?

[Shell]

Here we go with the accusations again...You are putting words in people's mouths. I have not seen ANYBODY say they didn't WANT Classic Petra to succeed. Money does not equal success, and not replying to a post on a message board does not equal lack of interest.

Maybe you should take a look at your own preconceived notions and stop judging people's motives. This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion.

[SCJ-7]

Hard words, very hard words. I think that here we are not fans of John, Greg, Bob or other Petra member, we are fans of Petra and their music. And I think that all people here wants a very successful Classic Petra Tour. And, yes, we are praying for that...

[Jonathan]

I can't recall anyone commenting to the effect of not wanting "Classic" Petra to succeed. I see lots of falling all over ourselves and desperation for info (and mistaking lack of updates for everything falling apart, which is just ludicrous). I think lots of things are inferred.

Just because someone doesn't say so on a message board doesn't mean someone isn't praying for Petra. Or the prayer requests in the off topic section. My prayer life doesn't intend to validate someone's online presence or jack up a reply count.

I would love to promote something to people I know, via Facebook, Twitter and other media, once something is set in stone. I can only say something like "Hey, an old lineup of Petra is supposedly reuniting, and they might have some concerts and new albums at some point" so often. If I make promises on behalf of Petra and it doesn't happen, or something changes, then I look like a fool.

And I jealously guard my reputation for not being a fool.