Doing Things "Not Of This World"

[brent]

I can't help it. Everytime I see some of the harsh posts on this forum I hear a song we sang a lot at church when I was a kid:

"We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord
We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord
And we pray that all unity may one day be restored
And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love
They will know we are Christians by our love "

Sometimes when I am tired or overwhelmed by the number of things I don't know and understand and how far I still have to go on my journey to become like Christ, I will stop and look behind me. And when I do, I am always amazed at how far I have come. And so thankful for the people God has put in my path to guide me the right way. I see friends and acquaintences standing still or starting down the wrong roads, and I want them to join me. But I have discovered that if I yell to them that they are wrong, misguided or even stupid, all I am doing is making them defensive and more determined to go where they are headed. Instead, I try to encourage them to come along by sharing what great things there are to see and experience along my road, especially the destination!

But no matter how excited I may be, if all they see on my road are harsh, critical and unjoyful people, they are going to take a pass on my road. The enemy has already made those other roads pretty darn enticing, but they would be empty if all of us reflected the light and love of our Savior. That is what put me on this right road; I saw the relationship some people had with Jesus and I said, "I want that!"

Now, just to be perfectly clear, I am not claiming to be perfect myself. In fact, I have battled negativity and a critical spirit most of my life. It has only been recently that God has shown me how my attitude and pride appears to others. And it grieves me to think that I may have turned someone away from Jesus.

The members of Petra have labored long and hard to create a powerful ministry that extends all over the world. I would hate for anyone to come to a Petra forum and feel diminished or unwelcome.

My intent is to inform, not to boast. My band will be out in the market soon and people will take their shots at us. I am ready.

Consider your song. We are not one in the Lord, unless all agree on who the Lord is and what he has done. That is the core issue. We are NOT to be unified with people that are against Jesus Christ. If you change what he says, you are just that, becuase you are changing what he is. People do not know what Rich or Michael W. Smith think about salvation, or who Jesus is, etc. Then a guy like me posts their own words, and I am the "know it all". Whatever.

I can say that when I stand before God that I warned people. I do not want to mislead anyone. If I had a cure for cancer I would share. I have the gospel and I share. See what I mean?

[executioner]

I am just tired of all the critizism and negativity Brent puts out around here. Show God's Love that's all you have to do Brent and you'll be ok, but you choose to blast people that can't even answer your accusations, so I'm done with it.

[brent]

Read the man's own words. Buy the book.

I PM'd the executioner. I told him that my motives are not negative. If anyone is offended, well, sorry. But you people need to learn on your own that the music industry is just that, and it is not healthy. Thanks to Shell for posting the link to that story, which echos what I have been saying around here for a while.

Whether you want to accept a truth about someone or not doe not change the fact that what they said/did was done. It is documented fact in Rich's own book. HE wrote it with Brennan, not me. Not some witch hunter.

Everyone buy the book and line it up with scripture. There will not be any doubt in your mind. It is not me being unloving. It is them. They are wresting (twisting) the scripture and adding to it. According to Revelation, that is the only sin that will cause loss of salvation...adding to or taking away from God's words. VERY serious stuff here folks. The devil is seeking whom he may devour. Don't be one that is misled. READ YOUR BIBLE.

[Shell]

Brent may be rather blunt at times, but he's right about being informed and lining stuff up with scripture, and there is a place to warn people. There aren't enough people out there who will warn people, and even worse there aren't enough people who will listen.

The music industry is corrupt for the most part and really needs a big time overhaul; there's a need for people who will question whether an artist's message is biblical. Maybe if there were more people who would ask these folks what in the heck they think they're doing before things get out of control, all that crap with Mike Warnke, Michael English and Sandi Patty wouldn't have happened. Of course, whether people who will do that are listened to is another story...

Sorry, didn't mean to get on a soapbox. It just makes me angry that CCM has become a machine that puts the almighty buck above everything else.

[calicowriter]

I just wanted to say that I agree with Brent and Shell on the accountability of CCM artists. What I was having a problem with is the hostility and judgement over statements like God took Rich Mullins before he could do more harm, and we should go ahead and kill everyone on death row, etc. In my opinion, this just turns some people off and makes them defensive. I have a problem with writing anyone off as not being able to be used by God. I absolutely agree that we should hold everything up to scripture and that we should never water down the message of salvation. I just think we should strive to inform and correct others in love and respect, not with anger or an air of superiority.

As far as CCM goes, I think the real problem is it has become just like the secular music business. It is (or should be) an entirely different animal. Now that most of the record companies are owned by big secular conglomerates, the Christian artist is nothing more than a commodity. The executives at the top don't care about the artists or their vision. There are some artists who get it (like Petra) and refuse to compromise, and some who don't. Those who are immature in their faith or in it for the wrong reasons are most likely to compromise and "play along" with the record companies, creating the sad state of affairs in CCM. Until there is a big evangelistic effort to reach talented and savy business people in the entertainment industry, true Christian music will be most prevalent on small and independent labels, out of the mainstream.

[seichu kaisho]

(I'm praying that all the words I speak here may be inspired from God and not my own)
- - - - -

Well, I'm doing a little research on Mr. Mullins to find out the real deal behind what we're all blaring about him.

I found on a website about Rich that he was on his way to perform at a concert when he was killed. Not some cultic baptism.

I haven't read "his" book yet so I can't use the book to back up anything. But are you sure it was Rich who wrote the book? It could have been some other wacko using Rich's identity.

I mean, look at his lyrics, especially in Creed, While the Nations Rage, and The Just Shall Live. I only have the two Songs compilations and The Jesus Record, but I've never come across anything unbiblical.

One thing I did notice, though, in the song Let Mercy Lead he says ". . .into the foolishness of God, that foolishness will save. . ." But Petra referred to salvation the same way in Fools' Gold, so I suppose the term "foolish" in this case has a different meaning than usual.

But anyway, how could it be that this guy, who has sung these truthful and passionate lyrics for 17 years, let alone having written them himself, not be a full-fledged believer of the truth? His lyrics boldly say that he loved the Lord with all his heart, he recognized he was a sinner, and he saw Jesus as his source of salvation and the forgiveness of his sins.

Sure not everyone who knows about the gospel is saved, but if Rich was singing and sharing every single aspect of the gospel through his lyrics, he must have been saved.

I realize I don't have adequate proof and I still have more to learn about Rich Mullins.

[brent]

The account of the baptism as reported to the public here in print and over the airwaves was this: He had been asking his priest freind questions off and on. He was debating whether to do it, fearing what people would say/react. He then gave in stating that the Catholic church must be right, because it was the only way that the gospel survived for hundreds of years. He was to do it before he left to do some shows. He was on his way to do that show when he was killed. But the baptism was to be within the next three days if I remember correctly.

Just because a guy like Rich, or lets say a guy like Jimmy Swaggart preaches or sings about something specifically, does not mean that they don't practice something different in private life, or in time change their views all together.

David Keresh turned away from orthodoxy and turned into a false prophet, mainstream charasmatics have turned to universalism, people change denominations and doctrines all of the time.

Again. Buy the book. The term that I outlined about salvation being foolish was not in the same context of that used in scripture. Many, MANY christians, pastors, etc have written the publisher and have asked for some clarification and/or credits to return product from their christian bookstores. It is not a book that lines up with scripture.

When you get the book, or before, look at this review. You had better know your stuff, because some of the phsyco babble in the book sounds right, but it is a play on words.

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/ragmuffin114.html