Greg X. Volz - God Only Knows is available!!

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
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Post by imc » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:41 pm

how DO YOU propose that that artists make the money to make their music?
Brent, you seem to have totally overlooked the examples I gave that earn money for the artist, while letting the consumer listen the music for free through advertisements (LastFM and Spotify), listening subscriptions (spotify) and endorsements (see the Groove Armada link).

These are just a few examples of different business models for the music industry. Only time will tell if they work long term, but no amount of ranting and raving from old school music biz folk will change the fact that downloading music (often for free and often illegally) is becoming the normal way for a lot of people to get their music.
Ask these two people who had to go millions in debt to make Petra happen if free music would have been their choice over record/CD/tape/LP revenue.
Of course they wouldn't have done, because at the time the record/CD/tape/LP revenue was extremely lucrative. Now its not.

The traditional print based media is going through the same death throws as the music industry. The internet has turned everything on its head, and the outlets that try and fight it will die. The NY Times and the UK's Guardian are both great examples of large media outlets that are embracing the internet, and that has meant making all their content freely available. This sets them up head and shoulders above their competitors.[/quote]
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Post by separateunion » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:19 pm

Brent,

Don't you think "millions in debt" is a bit exaggerated?
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Post by brent » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:17 pm

separateunion wrote:Brent,

Don't you think "millions in debt" is a bit exaggerated?
No. They were 2 Million in the hole at one time.
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Post by gman » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:46 pm

cndfogie wrote:My goodness did I ever open a can of worms....mmmmm...well brent, This "cheapo" loves free or "cheap" tunes always has and always will. And my question is Who made you God over all thing in the music industry?? I throw some info out there that people can do with what they want and am called names?? Honestly I don't know who the hell you think you are? I can say this is that you and your holier than thou attitude really shows the kind of blow hard you really are. To the admins go ahead and delete this as well as my account with TPZ.net. Honestly it seems posting here does more harm than good. I can go away knowing the mighty hand of brent smiteth me down.. Oh well. Have fun keeping the "Petra candle" burnin.
Have to call you out on this one bra. To be fair, I read through Brent's reply to your post. While he spoke his mind and didn't mince words, it didn't come across as directed at you, nor did I see him call you names.
Just sayin...
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Post by Shell » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:05 pm

Whatever the case, so long as music is available to download, people are going to download it. And short of shutting down the Internet, there isn't a great deal that can be done to stop it.
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Post by brent » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:08 pm

I know people are stealing music. But you are also talking about the bottom feeders and morally depraved crap of society. These are people that do not mind sinning to get what they want. These are Christians practicing relativism. So are we are to bend to the world's way of doing things because sin is overwhelming? Now THAT is scriptural.

Do we create a new business model to accommodate theft? Why even have a business? How far do you want to play this out? You want to do it with auto theft? I can't afford a new car, but I would like one, think I will take it. Why not? The automakers have someone to foot the bill. Is it only a valid point for cheap items under $50?

So, IMC, do you mean to say that stealing music was not OK back in the time when sales where good, but that it is acceptable now when sales are not?

If we continue to build these silly sites and fail to stop theft, how do you suppose artists and/or their label presidents/owners will go mortgage their homes to fund production and tour support? This is how it's done in Nashville. They put their own property up in hopes of a return. This is why the labels want a cut from the artists touring revenue, because record sales won't cover the cost of production for everyone all of the time. How do you expect artists to make money if it's free? You can't answer that.

Let me chase a rabbit:
Have you seen that little diagram that ties band popularity to IQ levels? I will bet you that you could explode that diagram to bands most stolen to IQ levels. I bet you could isolate the genres and belief systems that tie to theft. But we all know Christians do not steal music, right? It's ok for them.

Your website examples are not new models. They are not recreating the commerce of music. They are marketing gimmicks that are just another hand trying to get into the existing music biz pocket. I know all about them. They are something that CDBaby has networked with as well. They do not address marketing, distribution and commerce in a new way. They still have the same problems. They are underexposed. They have limited playlists/artists. They are not available everywhere. They are selling to less than 2% of the market that iTunes, Walmart, BestBuy and Amazon leave behind. Now, I am not a smart guy, but if I were going to revolutionize the music business, I would have to think of how to beat the one selling 80% of the downloads, not the 2%.

I don't need time to tell if these will work. There have been sites like this funded by bigger pockets and they all have closed shop. There is no longevity for a music site treating the internet as a store. THAT is the flaw in everyone's approach. The internet is NOT a store. Just having a site does not = money.

IMC, the premise behind the free sites is exposure. If you look at the countries where these sites are happening, you would find that record sales are generally crap there anyway (Autralia for example). So these sites are removing what cash was possible from the market.

Consider secular bands. Take a band like U2. They have exposure. Why would they need to give music away for free by choice, when it is already being stolen and put out for free anyway? Why would they agree to that? For exposure? Please. They are freakin' U2. Giving music away is not a new model with longevity. There is no money in that. That will not work with any other product. It will not work with music.

This is the same thing that mega churches have done to concert promoters here in the US. They started the whole free concert/artist in the service thing, thus eliminating the market and need for concerts people would pay for. This hasn't happened everywhere, but in many of the 10 major markets it is the case.

Subscription services (download, radio, etc) are a very small piece of the pie. They have never been well received. They are a fraction of a percent of the digital music market. They will not be around forever.
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Post by brent » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:20 pm

Hey, if someone feels like I called them a name, sorry. I didn't as far as I can tell. Sue, Tim the Toolman, RockSoup and a few others who have been exposed to me know that if I want to let a name fly, I will. So, sorry you got your feelings hurt IMC.

There are more than two sides to this topic. There is the big, mean, corrupt music biz that so many people hate (when they cannot get in it or stay in it any longer), and then there is the poor consumer. Don't give into the class envy thing that is sweeping the nation. Don't give in to the RIAA press. That is a special interest group of record company attorneys, owners and boardmembers. Somewhere in the middle there is the truth.

Somewhere in the middle are a crap load of bands, unsigned or signed to indie labels, who operate in a bubble, apart from the industry. They do well. Some of them sell out arenas hours after tickets go on sale, sell mostly CDs, etc. They have loyal cult followers that allow them to exist for decades without changing musical styles/selling out. THAT is where the good music is for me. Maybe you will find yours there too.
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Post by gman » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:27 pm

brent wrote: The internet is NOT a store. Just having a site does not = money.
That is why I never saw the logic behind burnlounge. It was just a way for people at the top, who got in early, to make a bunch of money.
Walmart can have an online store, and it can be accessed from everywhere, but few people can afford to open their own website and sell the same products as walmart. Having millions of people all over with websites all selling the same digital music didn't make any sense. Not the best use of the pyramid business model.
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Post by Jonathan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:24 pm

I'd rather buy anyone's album for 4 bucks than 18. .
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Post by petrafreak2009 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:58 pm

How about the saying "Back To Topic"? lol. Seriously the horse is dead. Sorry guys, without CD sales (AND concert sales, note that without CD sales, no one will care who you are) the artist makes no money.
Now as I said, back to topic. THIS CD IS FANTASMIC!!! I honestly could not find a track I liked best and certainly not least. This is definetly Greg's best work since Come Out Fighting. This album showed Greg's tenacity to put out great music, even in the midst of turmoil. My hat goes off to people like Greg Volz and Michael Sweet who give it up to the Lord and still put out great uplifting music while going through hardships.

This CD is definetly worth the $$ to get it. Better than .C which won't help anyone. I try to help out the artist by buying as directly from them as possible. EX. I bought John's first CDs from Sue when that was going on, bought The Grafting and ALL the Petra CD's from petramerch, ALL the Stryper CD's and clothing and etc. at stryper.com, all of Greg's stuff from gregxvolz.com. If it helps put money in someone's pocket so they can continue to put out great music for the Lord and that puts the light of Jesus Christ in a dark world, it makes it worth it. One day I truly believe we'll be walking down the Streets of Heaven one day and someone'll run up to us and hug us and say, "Thank you". And we'll be like, "WHAT! I've never met you before! How could I have done something for you?" And that person will reply, "I went to a Stryper/Greg Volz/ TobyMac/Disciple/The Devil Wears Prada/etc. concert, and because you bought materials from those bands, it encouraged them to keep going, and I accepted Christ as Lord at that concert".

Once again, congrats Greg on another great album!
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