John no longer with Petra?

[executioner]

Yeah the picture is totally wrong. CCM market has not and probably will never support the artists. Its a shame but its the realty.

[CatNamedManny]

What we need to keep in mind about this whole situation, is the fact that the two versions of Petra ARE NOT touring at the same time

This is true, but they will (hopefully) both be performing in the same year, and I used the word "performing," not "touring."

[shawnpfan2010]

I think that it is a problem with the christian community as a whole. When it comes to getting christians to go to a concert, most people are not willing to pay more than 15-20 dollars per ticket (I don't have any proof of that I am just throwing that number out) but the same people have no problem paying 50 dollars or more to see a secular artist. I have never understood that, I guess that people think that because its a "christian" artist then they should be free of charge or less than 10 dollars a ticket. It makes no sense.

People always want something for nothing. The promoters want to get them as cheep as they can, so they can make huge profits, nothing wrong with that, but give the guys what they deserve.

[Shell]

Good point Felipe, but so long as people will buy the tickets, there will always be Britney concerts. It all boils down to how much money they can bring in, and while there's nothing wrong with making money per se, society does support the wrong things.

[Dan]

1. I'm getting my info from a promoter from the Dallas area(in the last 25 yrs in a CCM artist came to DFW there is a 90% chance he had a hand in it). This promoter in turn is getting his info from an insider working in WMA, and yes according to them some of the terms that had been released are overstated.

2. As of July 1 still no confirmed dates.

3. Price tag is way too high. I've heard as much as 28k per show.

4. As of right now WMA is unwillingly to buge on the costs.

One thing that got to think about is if one of us or a promoter calls in they are going to hear the rosy side of the story, we will hear what they have planned; you will never hear the complete truth.

28K a show?

For 500 people that's $56 a ticket, would they draw 500 people?

I think we need to pray for these guys.

[brent]

They are not booking for 500 seats. They are booking for theaters and halls.

B list artists are way more than this. I mixed for The Tractors, and they were 40k as an opening act or 45 minute festival. A list artists get 100s of thousands per show. This also includes all production. Lights, sound, video and staging is easily $5k per show.

[Dan]

Cool.. The Tractors were on the secular charts and off though?

[brent]

They were on the charts, nominated for a Grammy, went platinum, did the big tours, did the big late night shows, etc, etc.

[shawnpfan2010]

Hey Brent, you might know this answer, with classic petra asking 15-18 thousand dollars per concert, which seems low to me, how much of that money goes to the guys and how much goes to the expenses of getting there, the crew etc. Is that amount just for the guys and their are other cost on top of that or does that cover everything.

[petranite]

Just to put into perspective. The current Superchick, John Reuben and Bread of Stone tour which includes all three artists and production which is very good costs between $5,000-8,000 dollars. That is straight from Scott Huie of H2O agency. That is a steal for that lineup. In booking shows you have to look for the best bang for the buck if your looking straight at finances. I cannot see Petra Classic getting 15-24K with nothing to show for it right now. AGain this is not a good econom,y for tours. A list shows such as NEwsboys cost 6 figures when everything is factored in (rider, production, promo, etc) Specialty acts like Amy Grant & Mike W Smith cost much more as Brent said. They are the Super A List and can cost several hundred thousand dollars and are usually promoted by people such as Live Nation or larger entities.

[executioner]

The Farewell Tour was averaging about $5,500 per show and some venues were getting a discount just to get Petra in there.
We have realized this version on Petra hasnt been together for 25 years and it is going to be difficult to get 28k per show.

[Dan]

Pollstar reports North American concert tour profits down nearly $200M from 2009

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wir ... d=11121867

This effects all bands, secular or not I guess?

[brent]

I have no idea how much the guys make.

The guys have to pay for:
Buss lease
Truck lease
fuel
tolls
permits/licenses/insurance
drivers
Tech Director
Light Director
Monitor Engineer
FOH Engineer
Band Techs (Drums, Guitar, Keys)
Lights
Sound
Video
Lodging
Airfare
Backline
Merch supplies

Yes, there are all kinds of cheap packages. But remember. They are sharing production, tech crew and backline in many cases. I know of one tour with three bands and the bands alternate providing tech services for the others. They are crammed into one bus and one trailer. That would suck! Their production sucked too. It was not enough for the room I saw them in. The engineer was clipping the amps and digital converters and could not hear it. It was horrid. So, we cannot compare cheap quality with expensive quality and say Petra is too expensive. There is no cooping. It is a single band. Their expenses and quality will be higher.

Christian shows will always cost less than their secular counterparts because it is a hyper niche market and 98% of the CCM radio stations do not play the music these tours provide. The kids don't listen to the radio stations either. So, it is what it is.

Classic Petra is a different bird.

[brent]

The Farewell Tour was averaging about $5,500 per show and some venues were getting a discount just to get Petra in there.
We have realized this version on Petra hasnt been together for 25 years and it is going to be difficult to get 28k per show.

Oh yeah. We are heading into a depression and the whole industry is going to eat cow pies soon. Good. Let it all die. ALL of it. Lets start over. Maybe we can keep big business out of it next time.

[petranite]

I'm not saying taht we are comparing apples to apples when I list different band options. I'm just saying an orange is cheaper and can fill you up and you like the orange then your not going to pay for an apple. Classic Petra costing what they "rumored" to be getting is not bad IMO but I understand fully why people would choose to book a package deal instead with a proven act that draws.

Here is how I look at it.

Classic Petra: No new material (granted that will change soon but we are asking to book site unseen or heard), No recent proven track record of being able to draw a sizable audience (at least over the past 10 years). No substantial album sales since No Doubt. No substanital chart success since No Doubt, No substantial award or critical success (GRammy /Dove, etc) since Double Take (Which by the way didn't help that album one bit because Grammy Awards are bought not earned).

Those are just a few things that make it difficult for promotors to pull the trigger and say "Ya I'll stand good for 24K". Heck man we often believe that gambling is a sin. Don't go to Vegas and gamble at a Casino but this is OK. Now don't get me wrong if you want to invest in this as an outreach or more realistically a ministry night for christians taht is one thing but most of the people booking shows don't look at it that way right now. They are willing to lose some money most of the time but not a lot or they will not be doing business much.

I recently had Lincoln Brewster for a show at my church and it was not cheap. I forget the total cost now but it was over 30K and because of coporate sponsorship which I had to find myself we made a profit. Had it not been for that we would have lost money even though it was a sell out. If a promotor can find other revenue streams for financing a concert then it makes things easier but beyond that it is hard to make money or even have an acceptable loss.

Sponsorships are generally a big part of keeping ticket prices low for the shows I'm inlvolved in when a bigger name plays for me. If I can't line that up then I usually don't pull the trigger because I would rather go to vegas and gamble my money at that point. (sarcasm)

What Brent listed as expenses is pretty much how it is for most full time touring bands give or take a couple things. It is not cheap for the bands and many end up just breaking even at the end of a tour. Yes even bigger bands. When you see a big show with great production jsut know somebody is paying for it whether it's the band or the promotor or both.