Third Classic Petra Album - All New Songs

[CatNamedManny]

Bob knows how to write modern-sounding stuff. I wonder if he's struggling to learn/remember how to write modern-sounding stuff for someone with a smoother vocal style.

I can't imagine them asking JDB to come back and produce. Not after his problems with Louie throughout his first stint with the band, and not after Bob essentially fired him following CITAS. Then there's the practical PR question of whether you want to hire someone who has a federal rap sheet, particularly one dealing with hate crime laws. And, again, I mean that in a fully practical sense, setting aside the considerations of forgiveness, redemption, second chances, etc.

[executioner]

Nope. I mean Back To The Street, the last Volz record. That record was written for Volz.

Here is the deal. The band is not going to be able to stay in the past forever. This will stay hot for a year or so. If they make the mistake of making more classic CDs, they will have to compete with themselves again. I think it would be counter productive to sound like the past when the whole goal is to not sound dated. New material is needed.

That said, I would hope that they get JDB back in the fold, who could be objective, and help modernize them a bit, without sacrificing what makes them Petra. I hope they get someone outside of the band to write, preferably someone that is a big fan. Judging by the comments I have been reading, people are not open to the folky stuff as much as the other tunes.

Bob clearly stated in the mid 80's(after John joined) that while recording Beat The System Greg, JDB, and Bob all came to an understanding that BTS would be the last album of all new material together; CITAS only came into affect because Star Song, JDB, and Petra had one more album to do under contract. Yes BTTS was recorded(without vocals) in 1985 sometime before CITAS was filmed and reccorded but BTTS was completely done without knowing who the next lead singer was going to be. I remember in the interview Bob saying they had someone like John's style in mind but other then that no clue who it was going to be.
Now some of the songs on BTTS were most likely written in the style of Greg because Greg was still in the band, but Bob knew going in that BTS that it was their last album with Greg.

[executioner]

Bob knows how to write modern-sounding stuff. I wonder if he's struggling to learn/remember how to write modern-sounding stuff for someone with a smoother vocal style.

I can't imagine them asking JDB to come back and produce. Not after his problems with Louie throughout his first stint with the band, and not after Bob essentially fired him following CITAS. Then there's the practical PR question of whether you want to hire someone who has a federal rap sheet, particularly one dealing with hate crime laws. And, again, I mean that in a fully practical sense, setting aside the considerations of forgiveness, redemption, second chances, etc.

I would be shocked and really turned off if JDB came back; This guy still has alot of baggage and I think this would really tarnish Petra's Image. My understanding is that JDB still is somewhat into some of these things and I feel this would be a HUGE no no on Petra's part. You could also see Louie walk if this would happen.

[Mountain Man]

That said, I would hope that they get JDB back in the fold, who could be objective, and help modernize them a bit, without sacrificing what makes them Petra.

He could at least make the album a bit more sonically interesting, I think. I really like Back to the Rock, but the sound stage just feels very closed in, and it's harder to pick individual elements out of the mix. I think someone like JDB could open that up a bit and give the music some room to breath.

[executioner]

Maybe bring in Brown Bannister or maybe someone more current like Skidd Mills. I think an album can get overproduced and that is something you don't want.
I personally think they will continue to do things in house to keep costs low.

[CatNamedManny]

I'd love to see Brown Bannister do it. The question then is cost. Right now they're getting production for free with John doing it; how much would a big name like Brown [umpteen Dove awards, Discoverer of Amy Grant (TM), graduate of the same journalism program as I (shameless plug)] charge?

[bjh]

Both Browns had their shot at it.

Granted, Brown Bannister had the unenviable position of following the long success of the Elefantes, but still... Wake-Up Call and tour, saw the beginning of the band member revolving door, and arguably the group's decline.

JDB? 1) Why bring the band together if the next step is to sideline Mark Kelly & Louie Weaver?
2) Everyone is entitled to his or her opinions, but racial hatred of any kind, aside from being unBiblical, it is not something a re-emerging band should associate with.

[zak89]

I had a witty paragraph targeting JDB written up - but I relented, as I realized the only thing I have to go by are a few interviews that are a bit on the old side - does anyone know what JDB is up to these days? Perhaps he's had a change of heart? Reading his take on racial issues (as of '99 or whenever that interview was) is sickening. Believing all humans are descended from Adam is believing in "blacks" evolving from "whites"? Please...

At any rate, I agree that his reputation is not something CP needs right now.

I like Brown Bannister - his one project with Petra turned out excellent as far as production quality; I don't blame him for Petra's decline, I think it had more to do with the band's decisions at (and after) that time. Wake Up Call could have stood on it's own if it had the chance; No Doubt was the first album that showcased a downward trend IMHO.

[brent]

I'd love to see Brown Bannister do it. The question then is cost. Right now they're getting production for free with John doing it; how much would a big name like Brown [umpteen Dove awards, Discoverer of Amy Grant (TM), graduate of the same journalism program as I (shameless plug)] charge?

I think they can have whomever they want. If this is indeed true, Dan Huff would be excellent. The issue for this band, like it is for all others, is to decide on the best idea from the best person.

[brent]

I had a witty paragraph targeting JDB written up - but I relented, as I realized the only thing I have to go by are a few interviews that are a bit on the old side - does anyone know what JDB is up to these days? Perhaps he's had a change of heart? Reading his take on racial issues (as of '99 or whenever that interview was) is sickening. Believing all humans are descended from Adam is believing in "blacks" evolving from "whites"? Please...

At any rate, I agree that his reputation is not something CP needs right now.

I like Brown Bannister - his one project with Petra turned out excellent as far as production quality; I don't blame him for Petra's decline, I think it had more to do with the band's decisions at (and after) that time. Wake Up Call could have stood on it's own if it had the chance; No Doubt was the first album that showcased a downward trend IMHO.

First of all, people have made assumptions about JDB that are not correct. It is not my job to clear that up. If he chooses to log on and address this he can. He does read stuff here occasionally.

I have known him for quite a few years. We have some shared industry history (friends, employers, etc) We chat once a month via phone or on FB. We mostly talk tech shop, industry, etc. I have never even asked him about what happened back then. He has offered some info. It doesn't matter to me now, because he is not doing "that" now. All that I know is that JDB is an excellent producer, knows how to make good sounding record on shoe string budget, and knows how to get things done. Spiritually, I know that he believes in Jesus as the way, truth, life. We probably disagree about other minor things, just like we all disagree about minor things.

What was quoted above is news to me. JDB has had to do business and work with "black" CCM industry folk, so it must not be that kind of an issue. Again, I do not know. Anyway, Jesus died for ALL and in him there is no nationality. I am not a racist, but in the bible we have references where Israel was told not to marry, trade horses or by cloth from Egypt. God killed opposing nations, wiping them from the planet. So, we must be careful accusing or drawing the wrong conclusions from interviews. We all know that the press rarely portrays things in context all of the time.

JDB has never stopped working. He has been traveling all over the place, producing artists. I think one of his last projects was a secular bluegrass deal, IIRC. He has been busy with his nice family. (His son has turned into a killer pianist. Alan and I took him to his first rock concert (Rush) a while back).

If JDB wants to reveal more, he will.

All I can say is that he is always willing to help those who need it. He has been helpful to me.

Now, as far as JDB's reputation and image are concerned, it is a different world now. If JDB must be excluded from from CCM or Classic Petra because of HIS past,HUUUUUUUGE numbers of other artists and industry businessmen, attorneys, etc need to get out NOW. There is sex, drugs, divorce, theft, illegal business practices, shafting people, etc in the past and present.

The average consumer downloads and never reads liner notes. The average consumer couldn't give a crap. Heck, the average consumer of Christian music thinks that there is more that one way to God and does not read their bible once a week (The Barna Group data). They don't care that some of the biggest CCM stars are not Christians, are gay, are lesbian, are Buddhists, etc.

Come on now. This is an entertainment industry driven by the dollar. If it is about ministry, it would be under an arm of a church, where it can be monitored and controlled biblically. It is not. So, until all men are perfected, cut the "past" stuff. We all have a past and all of our pasts stink under the nose of the Almighty.

[brent]

Both Browns had their shot at it.

Granted, Brown Bannister had the unenviable position of following the long success of the Elefantes, but still... Wake-Up Call and tour, saw the beginning of the band member revolving door, and arguably the group's decline.

JDB? 1) Why bring the band together if the next step is to sideline Mark Kelly & Louie Weaver?
2) Everyone is entitled to his or her opinions, but racial hatred of any kind, aside from being unBiblical, it is not something a re-emerging band should associate with.

Again with the assumptions.

re: JDB and Louie/Mark, that was then, under different circumstances and this is now. JDB has a good relationship with all of the guys.

re: WUC, you cannot blame the producer for doing his job. It was PETRA's fault, not the producer's. PETRA was playing the shows. PETRA (and it's audience) made changes. The people spoke with their dollars and went elsewhere. There has never been one band that has been afforded the luxury of a guaranteed audience no matter what they put out. Not even Metallica got away with that.

[bjh]

Both Browns had their shot at it.

Granted, Brown Bannister had the unenviable position of following the long success of the Elefantes, but still... Wake-Up Call and tour, saw the beginning of the band member revolving door, and arguably the group's decline.

JDB? 1) Why bring the band together if the next step is to sideline Mark Kelly & Louie Weaver?
2) Everyone is entitled to his or her opinions, but racial hatred of any kind, aside from being unBiblical, it is not something a re-emerging band should associate with.

Again with the assumptions.

re: JDB and Louie/Mark, that was then, under different circumstances and this is now. JDB has a good relationship with all of the guys.

re: WUC, you cannot blame the producer for doing his job. It was PETRA's fault, not the producer's. PETRA was playing the shows. PETRA (and it's audience) made changes. The people spoke with their dollars and went elsewhere. There has never been one band that has been afforded the luxury of a guaranteed audience no matter what they put out. Not even Metallica got away with that.

Re: JDB - Why assume that now is different from then? Are the circumstances for the band that much different than the early '80's? Petra is a band trying to reinvent itself.

RE: Brown B. - Was it not Petra's fault for picking Brown Bannister in the first place? Why should they do it again? At that time, I"m not sure BB was the right change to make. Why now?

[brent]

Both Browns had their shot at it.

Granted, Brown Bannister had the unenviable position of following the long success of the Elefantes, but still... Wake-Up Call and tour, saw the beginning of the band member revolving door, and arguably the group's decline.

JDB? 1) Why bring the band together if the next step is to sideline Mark Kelly & Louie Weaver?
2) Everyone is entitled to his or her opinions, but racial hatred of any kind, aside from being unBiblical, it is not something a re-emerging band should associate with.

Again with the assumptions.

re: JDB and Louie/Mark, that was then, under different circumstances and this is now. JDB has a good relationship with all of the guys.

re: WUC, you cannot blame the producer for doing his job. It was PETRA's fault, not the producer's. PETRA was playing the shows. PETRA (and it's audience) made changes. The people spoke with their dollars and went elsewhere. There has never been one band that has been afforded the luxury of a guaranteed audience no matter what they put out. Not even Metallica got away with that.

Re: JDB - Why assume that now is different from then? Are the circumstances for the band that much different than the early '80's? Petra is a band trying to reinvent itself.

RE: Brown B. - Was it not Petra's fault for picking Brown Bannister in the first place? Why should they do it again? At that time, I"m not sure BB was the right change to make. Why now?

I KNOW things are different now because I have spoken to them and because they are all different people with a different set of rules/variables/expectations now.

Brown Bannister made one of the best Petra records from a production standpoint. Bob will tell you that. He didn't write their music. He did what he was told to do by the powers that be. You cannot fault BB for Petra's decline. That decline starts and ends with Bob and John, the labels and the changing tastes/needs of the people and it began a few years before he was involved.

[Preacherman777]

I think it's goofy to be blaming WUC anyway for the decline. The revolving door and the real decline in popularity began with No Doubt, not Wake Up Call. Wake Up Call was an excellent album with the full team still intact. It may have been a little more mellow overall than some would have prefered, but it was still an excellent product. The same can not be said IMO of No Doubt, which really only had a few bright spots.

[CatNamedManny]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with WUC, at least not sonically. Musically, I'm not a fan, but the producer doesn't have anything to do with that unless he's given a huge amount of latitude by the band (a la Bob Rock and Metallica, since we're using them as a comparison today).

Brent, are you thinking they can get whoever they want to produce because of their stature in the industry or because they have a fairly large funding source hidden away?