The Petra Zone

Why is it that secular industry cares more legends in their industries than than CCM cares about legends in their industry?

Because the legends in the secular industry bring in the big bucks.

At least the secular industry doesn't try to hide the fact they're about money. I prefer Aerosmith over the Stones by the way.

Because of this. Christianity is not driving society, nor the marketplace.

When people get the bulk of life's necessities and entertainment from secular sources. The reason that the Stones and others have stay power, is because:

1. They are historical. People make a point to "go to a Stones concert atleast once before they die, etc..." It is an event.
2. They are a romantic landmark in many people's lives. People for the most part do not just hear the music at a Stones (or other historic band's) concerts. They are replaying where they were the first time they heard a song, smell the food, recall the girl/guy, etc, etc.

Christian music doesn't even appeal to all Christians. Many people do not even buy it, know where to buy it if they could, etc. It is a niche market that must be searched out, and is only appealing IF one is a Christian, etc. I know some secular listen to CCM, but by and large this is true.

Very little education has been done to show the roots of CCM/CRM/CMM.

Consider the buying habbits of people. Gene Simmons of KISS said it best. Guys will buy the music of their youth forever. Girls will look back at what they listened to when they were 12 and say yuck! How did I listen to that?

This is the big boo boo in Christian music. Because the freakin' money grubbin, Satanically influence companies that own CCM, make the powerless that be cater to the female, to move more product. The product is constantly changing, which means more money in their pockets. Meanwhile, the faithful guys are still bangin their heads to the tried and true, wondering why they are ignored in the stores and on radio.

Well, this trend is changing. Now the market is saturated with utter crap, and there aren't as many big tours, big delling records, or lasting artists.
Since they are all manufactured, talentless puppets, NO DUH! ClearChannel is going back to the 80's and 90's artists, catering to the male audience. Well, in just a while, the mindless "me too" "christian" radio market will do the same.

The Elefonte's and others are seeing the writing on the wall. Stryper is blazing the trail and other will follow suit to bring back the music that we, the people that have money now (35-40 yr olds) want to here.

Bye, bye Britney. You and your "christian" clones SUCK!

I think alot of Petra's problem was that they refused to 'get with the times', so to speak.
Did anyone else notice that there was a tide back in the 90's when most of the good bands died out, broke up or ceased being played? Or was that just me? It seemed they were replaced with a bunch of secular artists who weren't good enough for the secular market, and decided to be 'Christian-yeah that's it-we'll replace (girlfriend's name here) with Jesus'. Not long before that some were predicting a big 'breakthrough' in the Christian industry, as I recall. That was when I stopped listening to CCM, except for a few bands.

Petra always struck me as stridently theological-there came a time when those in the industry were not meant to be. They modernized musically but never lyrically (some would call this having a backbone and standing up for the truth. What do they know.)
This is how it seems to me anyway. Petra was too overtly Christian. While they were on top little could be done about them, but cash in. Once the shift began, Petra was left in the cold. But maybe I'm too cynical and bitter.

I do have to say, one of the reasons the Stones longevity is that they seemed to toss any artistic integrity they might have had out when they turfed Brian Jones. When I hear them there is a real difference in the sound-Stones music with Brian Jones-some great interesting stuff, Stones music without Jones-popular but not very good. Is that just me as well?
Though I think Brent is right for the most part about guys loving the music of their youth, there are many into the Stones who were born long after their glory days. Perhaps they are truly an anomaly.

I still love most of the music I listened to when I was four much less twelve! But I'm weird anyway.

And marketing to women SUCKS! I lamented the feminization of Christianity as a whole awhile ago, so I'm not going into it again...

charl wrote:I think alot of Petra's problem was that they refused to 'get with the times', so to speak.
Did anyone else notice that there was a tide back in the 90's when most of the good bands died out, broke up or ceased being played? Or was that just me? It seemed they were replaced with a bunch of secular artists who weren't good enough for the secular market, and decided to be 'Christian-yeah that's it-we'll replace (girlfriend's name here) with Jesus'. Not long before that some were predicting a big 'breakthrough' in the Christian industry, as I recall. That was when I stopped listening to CCM, except for a few bands.

Petra always struck me as stridently theological-there came a time when those in the industry were not meant to be. They modernized musically but never lyrically (some would call this having a backbone and standing up for the truth. What do they know.)
This is how it seems to me anyway. Petra was too overtly Christian. While they were on top little could be done about them, but cash in. Once the shift began, Petra was left in the cold. But maybe I'm too cynical and bitter.

I do have to say, one of the reasons the Stones longevity is that they seemed to toss any artistic integrity they might have had out when they turfed Brian Jones. When I hear them there is a real difference in the sound-Stones music with Brian Jones-some great interesting stuff, Stones music without Jones-popular but not very good. Is that just me as well?
Though I think Brent is right for the most part about guys loving the music of their youth, there are many into the Stones who were born long after their glory days. Perhaps they are truly an anomaly.

I still love most of the music I listened to when I was four much less twelve! But I'm weird anyway.

And marketing to women SUCKS! I lamented the feminization of Christianity as a whole awhile ago, so I'm not going into it again...

Part of Petra's problem is not that they would not change, but that they did. John will contend that Bob's leaving left Petra doing un-Petra songs. The did change. They had the token hip-hop drum loops. They did the acoustic rehash just like Bon Jovi did (only Bon Jovi got younger, hip guys to produce and engineer it, and it didn't suck). They went keyboard free. I seriously think that it wouldn't have mattered if they had remained straight-ahead rock, because the whole music world changed. The only way Petra could have made it would be to change their name, change to younger boyish eye-candy, and dumb it all down. Who the heck wants to by that? No me.

It's time. All good stuff is goin' away. It is the same thing that our great, great grandparents endured when big band swing died. They thought that all of the inventions and modern music in their day meant the end of all good things. As it was, so shall it be. Welcome to old age.

I think Petra was always cutting edge...I mean even today when you say Petra...people say oh yeah they're still around?....I mean I say...wow the Stones are still around? Petra broke ground, and they paved the way for ALOT of the bands today. PERSONALLY, I prefer Petra to alot of the bands today....but that's me...I cut my teeth on Petra...but I guess they figured they ran their course, and cannot keep up with "today's music"...but look at all these bands that are getting back together....how will the market treat them....Whitecross, Guardian, Stryper, Bride, BloodGood....I guess we will see.

Brent, I agree for the most part. Petra did change musically. They did the 'new' stuff you mentioned. But still no one wanted to know-so it wasn't about that.
The only thing that seemed to remain unchanged was the message, and I have heard it said that it in fact was that unapologetically Christian message that 'dated' them. So to me, cranky old shell that I am , that seems to be the main problem.

Interestingly Swing died because it became too highly comercialized and so constricting that musicians were practically suffocating artistically. Bop was the throwing off of those constraints. Hmmmm...

Up are Shell? haha

I don't believe Petra's problem was their message. I think the fact that they stayed on message is exactly what earned them the respect that they do have. I mean let's face it, no Christian rock band from the early 70's made as big an impact or lasted as long as Petra. Why? Because no other band had garnered that kind of respect or had a fanbase like the Petheads to keep them going, even when it looked like all was lost. People loved this band, but as Brent pointed out there are many reasons why they can't make the kind of mark (in the industry) that secular bands like the Stones or Aerosmith can.

I also really agree that if anything became this bands fatal flaw, it was the fact they did keep trying to change the music. Musically, Petra was first and foremost a rock band and that's what the fans wanted from them. I think that had they stuck with the heavy theme they had going with On Fire and Beyond Belief, they would have fared much better over the years. In the end, Jekyll and Hyde was a great heavy album, but alas, sadly, it was too little, too late.

charl wrote

The only thing that seemed to remain unchanged was the message

And that is what CHRISTIAN ROCK!!! is all bout. The message. The Word of God that meets your level. There are still a a handful of rock bands out there that still Prech the rock and roll. Must of the bands today are water down, thats just my opinion. It seems to me that there are afraid what other people might think. They want to be christian but only when they want to.

My wife and I have been to many concerts and the one thing that remains the same is that all you here from the girls are "Oh he is so cute. I cant wait to see how he looks. What should I wear so he can spot me out from the crowd."

As for the guys its more about how many hugs I can get from girls at one festival. Wow his hair is cool. I should do that. Those are cool clothes.
We want to Creation West last year just to see Petra. There we two teenage girls next to us said "Who are those old guys. Can they even play." My wife turned around and told them, in a nice way, "This is Petra. The greatest christian band ever. Without these guys your bands probably won't exist." Of course they looked at her like she lost her mind.

Sorry for the rambling.

Every Petra song you hear. You know exactly where there coming from and it seems to me that the ccm industry didn't care for that.

Well, this trend is changing. Now the market is saturated with utter crap, and there aren't as many big tours, big delling records, or lasting artists.

Right on target, Brent. KAINOS just got back from AtlantaFest very early Friday morning. We had the privilege of playing right before Audio Adrenaline, who was headlining and as we all know is one of the few mainstays in CCM right now.

Despite the Audio A's frontrunner status, I was surprised at how relatively empty the Southern Star Amphitheater was. Back in the early 90's, when I would see Newsboys, Petra, even Steven Curtis Chapman headline these things, the place would be packed... JAM packed. Not only was every seat full, but the lawn just beyond the seats would be loaded with concert goers. There was anticipation. There was excitement. There was awe. In contrast, this past Thursday I would say 50% capacity is a GENEROUS assessment.

The faithful CCM radio listener, the 25-35 year old soccer mom (which brings new definition to the term 'Desperate Housewives') may be keeping stations on the air, but they apparently aren't loading the kids up in the minivan or SUV to head to the nearest Christian Music Festival.

The Bible clearly says you're going to reap what you sow. We've resorted to lower quality, substandard songwriting, musicianship, and most importantly lack of testimony and ministry to carry the Christian market, so long as it pays the bills and / or makes us fatter than we were yesterday.

When we were at the Crossover Festival in Missouri last week, one of the sound technicians and I had a conversation and he brought up an EXCELLENT point. Just about any guitar player, Christian or not, knows exactly who Phil Keaggy is. Many, Christian or not, regard him as the best guitarist out there. Why? Because he excels at his craft. He doesn't chase after trends, he SETS them. Here is a Christian, who unabashedly claims Jesus Christ as His Lord, and has made a HUGE impact on our culture.

So it should be with ALL of CCM. We should be paving the way. Our lives and music should make the world want to be like us, not the other way around. In fact, we've done the exact opposite and we've found a way to mimic everything from the Grammy Awards to Avril Lavigne. We've become an off-brand. A generic.

As I looked out over the sparse AtlantaFest crowd, I couldn't help but wonder... 'why should anyone WANT to settle for an imitation when they can have the real thing?'

Mexican Spud wrote:We want to Creation West last year just to see Petra. There we two teenage girls next to us said "Who are those old guys. Can they even play." My wife turned around and told them, in a nice way, "This is Petra. The greatest christian band ever. Without these guys your bands probably won't exist." Of course they looked at her like she lost her mind.

To Mexican Spud's wife:

Yeah!!! You go lady!!!

Historymaker said basically what I wanted to say

But much better.

They did the acoustic rehash just like Bon Jovi did

Only Petra actually did it first and won a Grammy before Bon Jovi did it.

I always figured the issue with Petra was money. I still do.

Think of it this way - If 1% of the secular market is into the Stones, they'll make a buttload of money. If 1% of the CCM market is interested in Petra, they'll wither on the vine.

The funny thing about Petra is that they still blow kids away in concert. I've seen skeptical teenyboppers get into a Petra show and end up dancing and yelling and buying CDs at the end. And maybe I'm an irrational optimist, but I really believe that they were on the verge of breaking though after J&H, based on what I saw at shows. What a lineup, and what great music they were playing!

But it's all water under the bridge. Maybe CCM will get interested in its own history and begin giving the early artists credit again. I'd sure like to see Petra and Randy Stonehill and Phil Keaggy and a few others get some long due recognition.

Bottom line: it's all for Christ, and the money and fame are just bonuses (or stumbling blocks for some people).