Johnathan David Brown/ Brown Bannister

[PetFCtr]

The Petra Albums/cd's which have JDB and BB at the helm of producer and engineer sounds really crystal clear and the music sound clean. I notice this consistantly with the JDB albums. Is it the fact that hes is very good at what he does or is it because they have been remastered for the cd's. I havent heard the viynl versions. BB's Wake Up Call sounds like this too.

The elfantes produced albums dont sound as clean. I like the John and Dinos era because of the rockier sound but I think sound quality lacks. Maybe its just my ears...

[calicowriter]

That's funny (as in strange) to me because I've always thought that Wake Up Call sounded more muddy than the Elefante records.

[executioner]

I feel the thing that really sounded clear on WUC was the drums. WUC is the best Petra album in the drum department.

[Edward]

Nope. Not your ears. Those are some of the worst sounding records PERIOD! Small stereo image, limited dynamic range, etc. I love the tunes but the CDs sound quality suck. I loved WUC's mix. Very large and realistic. Nice reverb decays, stereo image, etc.

JDB is a purist type of guy. He doesn't let the technology get in the way or determine the sound. Listen to ANY Elefonte record, be it Guardian, etc, and you hear the same crappy sonics. Elafarte records are what some Nashville guys call them. There's a dirtier word too.

They weren't much as studio owners either. They hacked off alot of people at the Sound Kitchen. Some secular people say they give Christians a bad name. Call Fletcher at Mercenary Audio (a guy that definately did not need a negative testamony) in Boston and ask him about those guys.

You can take a turd and chrome plate it, gold sputter it, or spray paint it orange. But inside, it is still a turd.

[Shell]

Hmmmm. That's an interesting concept. Bob & Co. must have seen something in them to work with them for so long, and John Elefante has a wonderful voice. The business end of the music industry...Well, I won't get into that. Let's just say I know enough about human nature to know it can stink.

[Dan]

Wake up call sounds to muffelled all the Elefante produced albums sound great.

[Michael]

I don't think any of Petra's albums have actually been remastered for CD, or at all... except that I believe at least some of the songs on the Still Means War CD have been cleaned up somehow. Check the liner notes; I don't have 'em with me today or I'd look at them myself.

[seichu kaisho]

I guess I'm different because I love the drums on the albums from 1986 to 1991. They have a powerful sound and really pack a punch.

But I also love the WUC drums too. They sound different but it's a good change. The 1986-1991 drum sound wouldn't have fit on WUC.

Then from No Doubt to Revival the drums are mediocre. Not quite as powerful sounding.

The 1981-1984 drums are kinda mellow too, but better than the 1995-2001 drums.

[charl]

Hmm, yes, I always felt the elefante produced albums were muddy too (phew-at least I'm not the only one!). I think that was why I liked WUC so much-I wasn't always fiddling with the sound trying to get something a little clearer. I remember thinking 'WoW you can hear, like, EvERyThiNg!'
So it seemed to me anyway-though it's not like I'm an authority.

I don't have anything against the 'less than clear' sounds in general-do not like the blues played in too clear a tone at all-but some of those albums could have been improved by a different approach. I do feel that those songs were sometimes great not because of production, but in spite of.

[ErioL]

I'm getting my degree in Audio Engineering, so I can sort of speak with experience. I agree that the Elefantes mixes were muddy. IMO, the best mixes were Jonathon David Brown's, and then WUC was good, but not quite where I'd like it. Bob mentioned somewhere that he felt rushed on WUC. The Elefante mixes are not what I like, but the songs are soo good.

[Mountain Man]

I guess I'm different because I love the drums on the albums from 1986 to 1991. They have a powerful sound and really pack a punch.

But I also love the WUC drums too. They sound different but it's a good change. The 1986-1991 drum sound wouldn't have fit on WUC.

That's because what you hear on the Elefante records are not the actual drums recorded in the studio. Rather, during the mixing process, each drum hit was individually replaced with a sample which lent it that "punchier" sound but also all but excised Louie Weaver's actual performance from the final recording (something he was never too happy about).

If I'm not mistaken, Wake Up Call features Louie's actual drum work, so it's what real drums sound like.

[seichu kaisho]

The mixing on the 1986 and 87 albums I will agree is somewhat muddy, but I think the mixing on the albums from 1988 to 1991 is clear as day. On On Fire and Beyond Belief the guitars are brought out with a sharper sound than any other Petra album before then. (Then of course Jekyll and Hyde takes this a step further. . .)

[Edward]

Everyone hears differently. People use different terms to express what they hear. I do not think that the sound of the Elafantfart records made use of too much compression, which brought up some frequencies that we humans generally do not like to associate with loud rock and roll. There isn't much top end on the records as a result. This could be a result of the mixing. It is more likely due to the mastering.

People today use too much compression from a thing called a Waves L2. This software and hardware device has enabled engineers around the world to begin the loudness wars for CDs. More compression removes the dynamic range, so that all frequencies at all amplitudes have the same (or close to) intensity. This allows the engineer to use some make-up gain to increase the over all level of the discs, to minimize "overs" and keep that CD as loud as it can be. There are a few websites out there that list the world's loudest CDs. They also list the worst sounding CDs as a result.

We here at the studio have tools that look at the music three dimensionally. The records in question look very poor compraed to JDBs records. JDB was recording, mixing and mastering for an analog world, when music sounded like music, less homogenized. First generation CDs were made by analog guys who didn't really have to play the loudness war. They let the music have some air and dynamics, so their discs were no very loud. Then the record companies began to remaster these things universally, and it changed the mixes drastically. The artists started hearing it. The mixing engineers heard it. Lawsuit and attempts to legislate protection of the finished soon followed.

Retailers that accepted returns from music clubs no longer accepted them. Specific music clubs became known for having poor quality, yet louder CDs. Since then, people have given up and given in. They have to play the game, because the average consumer is too ignorant to know that the first CDs sound better, because the human ear and brain of the average consumer will almost always thiink that something louder with more high frequencies is better.

Radio plays on this. When new songs arrive to big network stations, they are processed to have a bit more top end and edge, making that tune sound newer than the rest.

The only way to hear the music the way that the artists entended anymore is to be in the studio, behind the monitors. That is too bad. We have the technology to reproduce things better than ever in the home and car. Too bad we let the stupid jackass record business execs ruin the sound for all of us. Notice that I didn't say MUSIC business. That does not exist.

[calicowriter]

You know Edward, if by some chance you really aren't Brent, that studio must be a very angry, bitter and depressing place to work.

The biz is what it is. If this is the vocation God has called you to, I pray that you will find joy and contentment this Christmas season. If not, I pray that you will find the atmosphere to experience the fruits of the spirit and to utilize your talents for the glory of God.

[Shell]

Well, it could be Brent not necessarily, and it doesn�t really matter as MJ has pointed out. Brent has never had any problem posting what he posts under his own name though, so I can�t think of any reason he�d start doing so now unless he�s just bored and wants a change. Some people are a little blunter in how they express themselves; there�s nothing intrinsically wrong with that. It�s possible to be realistic without being bitter about it though, I think I am. I do look for the best in everything but sort of expect the worst if that makes any sense.

I�ve been to enough concerts over the years and know enough about human nature to know the music industry has a very ugly side. It isn't at the top of their list of priorities for the most part to be fair or care about other's feelings or how hard someone might be working...They don't really care much about anything other than the green stuff rolling in. There are going to be disadvantages to any job. I feel like I�m chained to my dang computer sometimes because I work at home, so the Zone is an outlet for me to relax a little bit. Maybe he needs to blow off steam sometimes. It can be hard when you can't see or hear someone to know for sure what exactly they might mean too.