The Petra Zone

Has anyone seen the CITAS DVD listed on Ebay? Is this legal?

No and NO!

No I have not seen it, but it is legal in 2 ways.

1. If the seller has an original copy of it on VHS or laser disc.

2. If the seller is not making a profit and is just recouping the expenses of shipping/handling.

If these 2 things do not apply than no it is not legal.

executioner wrote:No I have not seen it, but it is legal in 2 ways.

1. If the seller has an original copy of it on VHS or laser disc.

2. If the seller is not making a profit and is just recouping the expenses of shipping/handling.

If these 2 things do not apply than no it is not legal.

I'm pretty sure that #2 is ALWAYS illegal regardless of profit, because the seller is violating copyright law. Fair use permits you to make copies of what you own for your personal use (e.g., archives, et c.). But you can't give those copies away (essentially #2) without violating copyright law.

winterlens wrote:

executioner wrote:No I have not seen it, but it is legal in 2 ways.

1. If the seller has an original copy of it on VHS or laser disc.

2. If the seller is not making a profit and is just recouping the expenses of shipping/handling.

If these 2 things do not apply than no it is not legal.

I'm pretty sure that #2 is ALWAYS illegal regardless of profit, because the seller is violating copyright law. Fair use permits you to make copies of what you own for your personal use (e.g., archives, et c.). But you can't give those copies away (essentially #2) without violating copyright law.

In 2004 Aerosmith brought a lawsuit against an individual that was doing that on his own personal web site and the judge sided with the individual because the person was not making a profit and he already had bought an original copy of what he was shipping to other people. Aerosmith declined to take it to a higher court for reasons I'm not sure. For awhile this story was on Aerosmith's web site but I don't know if it is still there in archives. Also another point I believe why the judge sided with this guy was because the product was out of print and he said that Aerosmith should make it available to the public if they did not want this to happen.

BTW Dave Mathews, No Doubt and other artists have lost court battles for some of the same reasons in the last few years.

I thought someone mentioned earlier that the aerosmith case dealt with bootlegs? Which is different from a copy of an actual officially released product.

Also since the product is being sold on EBAY of all places, where the HIGHEST bid wins, then the 2nd answer is unequivocally NO. Unless of course the seller is giving away his "original" VHS tape ( ) as well.

This seller is definitely making money. The bid is at $40 with 3 days and 10 hours left to go. I just wish they could be released legally....but I know the answer is no it will never happen.

Report it like I did.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/

This person in Richmond, Melbourne, Australia has sold more than 100 copies already.

petrafan1 wrote:i got an email from bob hartman that said he is in talks to release citas on dvd but it would have to be done from vhs since the master copy is lost. from the way he talks it is jusy a matter of time.

That would be nice, just to be able to obtain it in a legal capacity. I could then convert it myself if need be. I still see no reason why someone couldn't convert it from VHS to DVD though. It's not that hard to do and you'd be surprised at how decent the quality is. Adding chapter stops and creating menu's is just as easy.

I'll be the first to say I do not know a whole lot about distribution (or the legalities of it) but I've seen alot of older christian artists making stuff available on their own web sites. Maybe Bob could do that. In fact maybe him and John can get together and record a couple home studio "unnoficial" petra songs.

Oh, and danielaussie... that url is killing this thread... any way you could shrink it up a little?

I have e-mailed the seller and asked him where he obtained permission to make the CITAS DVD. I am awaiting a reply. I hope the information about CITAS being re-released is true. Great music should never be discontinued. There are always new generations to enjoy it.

greenchili wrote:I thought someone mentioned earlier that the aerosmith case dealt with bootlegs? Which is different from a copy of an actual officially released product.

Also since the product is being sold on EBAY of all places, where the HIGHEST bid wins, then the 2nd answer is unequivocally NO. Unless of course the seller is giving away his "original" VHS tape ( ) as well.

Actually over the last ten years Aerosmith has probably been in court more than they been out on tour because of lawsuits. They've had mulitple lawsuits going at one time in the late 90's. The one I am talking about was with one individual and his little web site about him making copies of original material that he had legally bought and but they have since gone out of print.

jeffreykbaker wrote:This seller is definitely making money. The bid is at $40 with 3 days and 10 hours left to go. I just wish they could be released legally....but I know the answer is no it will never happen.

If he is making money than what he is doing is illegal by copyright laws. I'm surprised Ebay hasn't shut him down yet.

The CITAS DVD has been removed from EBAY.

I dont see what the big deal is. I'd pay good money to obtain a copy. I never did see the big deal about not reproducing of music. Now I wouldn't sell something like that on ebay. If anything I'd give a copy away. My point is bands like Aerosmith have lots of money anyway.

darthpethead wrote:I dont see what the big deal is. I'd pay good money to obtain a copy. I never did see the big deal about not reproducing of music. Now I wouldn't sell something like that on ebay. If anything I'd give a copy away. My point is bands like Aerosmith have lots of money anyway.

And if your boss tomorrow said that he was not paying you anymore since you had worked there for so long and were probably rich anyway, that would be OK with you?