Petra video shoot and TV show practices

[brent]

I didn't get into the last war of words, concerning Petra Classic and the taping. I was too busy with a funeral and traveling.

Here are some thoughts.

There are no rules about studio tracks, loops, samples, etc and live shows. It is done everyday. Some people like it, because it makes the live band sound like the recorded band. In many, MANY cases, bands on the radio do not play their own tracks. In some cases they cannot. It is something that musicians and fans wrestle with. Some fans feel ripped off not hearing the real talent of the band. Some fans wouldn't notice if everything was faked.

When it comes to TV, TV is a different bird. Ever watch those old dance shows like Soul Train, Bible Clark, etc, etc? Lipsync'd. Faked. Every watch music awards shows? Much of it is lipsync'd, faked. TV is VERY expensive. Only those shows set up for live music actually have the ability to provide it. Now, if the artist is performing for a morning show at 6am, and load in and sound check is at 3am, I can bet that the vocals are going to be supported some how, because that is just too hard to sing that early in the morning, unless you are a bass or baritone.

The TBN show taping was never clarified on the front side as to what it would be. People thought that it would be a concert. Will I buy a DVD of them lipsync'ing and playing "Rock Band"? Nope. If it were a legit tracking, like CITAS (CITaS, CIT&S), then I would buy it. You do what you want. I think the new record is great. I think it is what they need to do for now. I think the time is right for it. Give me a video of them at a festival with 70k people going nuts, and little to no studio tracks, and I will buy that. But that is just my thing. Rush, Dream Theater, Yes, Styx, Elton John, Genesis, etc did not need tracks for their great live DVDs. They made some adaptations to pull off the tunes live and rocked it. But those were not TV shows. Those were concerts that were filmed. Two different things.

re: TBN. There are worse places for broadcast quality. Petra will be one of the five things I would watch on TBN.

[rexreed]

Good points Brent! I don't know what to think about the TBN taping. Is it supposed to be a concert DVD or a TV special? If it's supposed to be a DVD then it is low on my priority list now that I know the technical limitations of the production. Live DVD's are best when they are a real concert! If it's a TV special then I'm a little more OK with it. Any idea if they recorded it in HD?

[ricanrolear]

Any idea if they recorded it in HD?

They said they were using HD cameras at the show, and when they were showing some clips at the meet and greet it looked great!!

[jeremywg]

Any idea if they recorded it in HD?

They said they were using HD cameras at the show, and when they were showing some clips at the meet and greet it looked great!!

What they were showing on the tv's at the meet and greet was definitely HD!! As for the lipsyncing.... I can hear a lot of vocal pitch correction, aka Auto tune, in use on the cd. On Second Wind it's very obvious. I'm guessing the reason for using the vocal track at the show was because you can't correct pitch live. Greg is 60 and he's hitting notes on those songs that most women can't scream out. It doesn't bother me the way they did it. It's Petra, and they still put on a great show. I wasn't disappointed at all. On DVD no one will be able to tell.

[jonmcg93]

As for the lipsyncing.... I can hear a lot of vocal pitch correction, aka Auto tune, in use on the cd. On Second Wind it's very obvious. I'm guessing the reason for using the vocal track at the show was because you can't correct pitch live.

Finally independent confirmation, I'm glad someone else heard the same thing I did.

It's all good though, because I still love his voice.

FWIW I want to hear "Voice in the Wind" and "Disciple"

[p-freak]

How does auto tune work? I can hear that they did something, but since I'm not into technical studio stuff, I don't really know what I'm hearing. Is it something like digital manipulation?

[rexreed]

Autotune breakdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYzv-AVi78E

[jonmcg93]

How does auto tune work? I can hear that they did something, but since I'm not into technical studio stuff, I don't really know what I'm hearing. Is it something like digital manipulation?

Once you hear it, you'll know it.

Auto-Tune is a downloadable studio trick that can take a vocal and instantly nudge it onto the proper note or move it to the correct pitch. It’s like Photoshop for the human voice. Auto-Tune doesn’t make it possible for just anyone to sing like a pro, but used as its creator intended, it can transform a wavering performance into something technically flawless.

[sue d.]

Interesting explanation... but here's my take on it: if you can't sing properly and hit the correct notes on a song - should you really be recording?

And I'm NOT talking about the occasional use of it or about Greg... I'm talking in general. If you need a machine to correct your vocals constantly - then why are you singing and selling a product?

[jonmcg93]

Interesting explanation... but here's my take on it: if you can't sing properly and hit the correct notes on a song - should you really be recording?

And I'm NOT talking about the occasional use of it or about Greg... I'm talking in general. If you need a machine to correct your vocals constantly - then why are you singing and selling a product?

I'm basically in agreement with what your saying. I'd say the majority of "artists" these days use it in case they are a bit off. I don't agree with it being used as it is, if it's there to fix a little flub that's one thing but going to the extreme is just silly.

[superfly]

I understand it may be needed with singers who can't sing as well, but I don't understand why CP would use it in the studio. If a vocal doesn't sound good in the studio isn't that when the producer would say to the singer "gotta try that line again"? What does it take, an extra couple minutes to re-record a verse? I have no knowledge of how an album is recorded, so please pardon my ignorance. There is obviously so much more to making a recording than the casual listener can fathom. Thanks!

[bakersfieldpethead]

And I'm NOT talking about the occasional use of it or about Greg... I'm talking in general. If you need a machine to correct your vocals constantly - then why are you singing and selling a product?

If you’re Britney Spears, you shouldn’t sing

[jonmcg93]

And I'm NOT talking about the occasional use of it or about Greg... I'm talking in general. If you need a machine to correct your vocals constantly - then why are you singing and selling a product?

If you’re Britney Spears, you shouldn’t sing

Sadly some artists use it "live" to correct pitch. Faith Hill, Reba Mcentire (sp) to name a few. I can understand wanting it to sound perfect, but if technology becomes your crutch then what's going to happen if the tech breaks?
Your stuck.

[bakersfieldpethead]

There have been effects used for several years to hide flaws in vocals for live shows. Mostly just in case someone has a cold or whatever. If you make your living with your voice, you have to do whatever it takes to make sure you sound good at least 98% of the time. "What ever it takes to get the job done" comes into play.

[jonmcg93]

There have been effects used for several years to hide flaws in vocals for live shows. Mostly just in case someone has a cold or whatever. If you make your living with your voice, you have to do whatever it takes to make sure you sound good at least 98% of the time. "What ever it takes to get the job done" comes into play.

On the other hand though, I don't think Bruce from Maiden uses it, or Halford either. So if they don't then it stands to reason that if you rely on it, then it becomes a crutch you have to have.

My own .02 cents and as a singer that has had to do gigs when I'm sick or getting over being sick, I just lower the pitch of the song and don't try and stretch it too much. We did one gig tuned a whole step down because I was in the middle of bronchitis and had that gunk in my throat thing going on. We pulled it off, fever and all LOL. Didn't make a dime, but I'm not cancelling a gig.

I just think it's too easy to pull up a program when another stab at it on a recording would probably fix it.