Anybody have details on Bob Hartmans guitar rig

[Muleya]

Just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of amps and effects Bob used for the BTTR album and/or on tour?

[Dan]

Which one?

[fcollazo]

He is going very simple these days, with basically a Boss multi effects unit straight to the soundboard. To me is a let down. I like the tone of a real tube amp, always even if is a 22 watter.

[Muleya]

He is going very simple these days, with basically a Boss multi effects unit straight to the soundboard. To me is a let down. I like the tone of a real tube amp, always even if is a 22 watter.

Well, that explains some things! I agree...especially on the album, there's no reason to NOT use a tube amp in the studio these days...he owns tube amps and they're not hard to mic...what gives? Even live...there's a growing number of tube amps that sound great at low volumes. I own a Marshall JVM and it sounds great in my basement at very reasonable volumes, so volume is no longer a reason to not use a tube amp on stage, regardless of venue size!

[fcollazo]

I agree.
these days you can get a small tube amp and mic it through the pa system and sound great. I noticed that the guitar tones on the new album sounds very artificial. I have a bugera 22 watt combo, a peavey valveking 50 watt combo, and a peavey classic 30 combo, and I tell you swapping out the tubes to groove tubes, and putting celestion vintage 30 speakers, blows off the water any other amp costing 1000 dollars more. bob even recorded many petra classics with his peavey classic 30

[Muleya]

I've been intrigued by those Bugera amps, but I've already got two tube amps and just picked up a small Fender Mustang modeller..as a guy who only plays in my basement at this point, I can't really justify any more!! Anyhow, how do you like the Bugera? I've not been able to figure out what it's based on...do you know?

Other than my Marshall, I've got a single-ended amp that someone built for me with a plexi preamp. After I got the Marshall, I rewired the preamp to black face specs and put a 6550 in the power amp to increase the wattage and headroom a bit. Then I built a 1x12 combo cab for it. I have no idea how many watts it puts out, but I'm guessing 15-20. I'm not sure it would be loud enough to gig with, but it would certainly work in the studio.

A friend I used to be in a band with used to have a Classic 30 and was using it for our gigs. It had a great drive sound...problem was he pushing the headroom for the clean channel, even mic'ing it. But then our drummer was loud as all get out, and that didn't help any!

[brent]

They used an amp on the album. There was pitch shifting on that too on a couple of tunes. When high-gain amps are used, the sound mushy sounding, especially when compressed. This is why I am leaning away from that sound I once liked and am going back to EL34 based high designs, that have a bit more definition and punch harder.

Bob is too the point where it just doesn't pay to lug around his prized amps live. Most promoters/buyers aren't going to provide what they would REALLY love to have anyway...The average person cannot tell a difference.

I have never been turned on by anything Behringer. Some of those amps are a Marshall circuit copy, but the components are inferior and the noise is higher. When it comes to warranty, reliability and resale value, Marshall is much better investment, IF it is an older, REAL Marshall, and not the new crap.

The 6550 is more or less the EVH 5150. The new EL34 based 6534 is GREAT.

If you like that modern mushy sound, Fastballs are the bomb.

[fcollazo]

I have the Bugera 333 XL too, I played it side by side with the Dual Rectifier, Marshal DSL, 6550, Bogner Ecstacy, and really had nothing to envy from those amps. A lot people bash Bugera because they are able to break the myth of the overpriced, overhyped amp. Nobody criticizes Two Rock, or Fuchs for imitating Dumble, or Matchless for imitating Vox, and all the Blackface and Plexi copiers out there just because they are "boutique" and carry an obscene price.

Think, about it, even Marshall and Celestion are building in China and still charging regular prices.

I have my Bugeras for 2 years now and they still kick behind.

Give me a break

[fcollazo]

My Bugeras are super quiet in the studio and live, and ooze loads of sweet tone. The 333 XL is Bogner like, and the V22 is a mix of Plexi and Dumble!

[Muleya]

I can understand Bob not taking his prized amps on tour, but no reason not to use them in the studio. And even if he doesn't, any studio worth their salt should have a selection of good amps to choose from.

Now don't go dissing the new Marshall amps. I have a JVM (which is still made in the UK, BTW), and it's a fine amp. It's not a plexi, JCM 800 or JTM 45, but it's a fine amp in it's own right. Anyone who dismisses these amps has never spent any time with one. They have excellent clean channels and that signature Marshall roar on the Crunch and OD channels.

The Peavey 6505 and related amps are great amps. I know folks who have both the 6550 and the JVM and like both. Though as you'd expect, there are some who prefer the JVM and some prefer who the 6505. The one thing that many agree on is the JVM has a better clean channel. Obviously, you don't buy either amp for it's clean channel, but I do like a nice Fender clean, and the JVM definitely gets you in the ballpark. And if you can have that in the same amp that also provides many of the classic Marshall tones from the past, plus all the gain you could ever want and more, why not!!

I have heard that some of the Bugera amps may not be shielded as well as some...heard on or two reports of them picking up radio stations and such. But other than that, I've heard generally good things about them. They have a couple out that intrigue me a bit. The 1960 Infinium is probably top of the list. I'm intrigued by the ability to select whether or not the first two tube stages are used individually, or together in parallel, like jumping channels on a plexi, or together in series, cascaded like a JCM800. I hope to run across one in a store one day so I can try it out!

[brent]

We are a large volume dealer. There is a difference in components. Behringer does not test component tolerance, nor do they QC in the factory. Their idea of service is replacement, not repair most of the time. I am glad you have good experiences for now. But the average life span for those products is three years under heavy duty cycle. BTW, we also sell most of those other amps listed and they sell themselves. You can buy a classic Marshall and it will appreciate in value. You can buy some older out of production Mesa Boogies and they will hold their value. Re: the modern boutique amps (not the Chinese versions sold at Best Buy and Guitar Center) the cost difference is in point to point wiring, very high tolerance components, USA labor and continuous support by someone who plays the guitar and speaks English. Not all boutique amps are worth it. There is marketing BS. Replacing a high end amp with a Behringer is a hard task. You won't see any on tech riders for a reason.

[fcollazo]

Where do you get that Behringer has no QC, and poor components Brent? They are turning the industry on it's head, and everybody is running scared. They have technology that other manufacturers do not have like their new self biasing, matching power tube system, it even warns you about which tube needs to be changed.

Lee Ritenoir uses the 333XL and is working with Bugera right now to build his custom signature amp. A bunch of other artists are using Bugera, and you can see them on tour.

I know Bugera is relatively new, but also have you guys considered Carvin? Carvin amps are USA made and are coming up now with the V3M 50 watt EL84 Micro Head with three channels with individual tone controls plus reverb, for $599.00

Brent, I agree EL34s are my favorite set up for Power tubes. 6L6/5881s are too fuzzy sounding.

[brent]

I have been selling Behringer since it first hit the market as a distributor and dealer.

They are not turning the industry on it's head. They are systematically bringing it to it's knees, lowering the bar. They have created a new market for the low end and entry level where Peavey has now become a higher standard. Uli, the owner of Behringer has stolen designs, been sued, settled out of court in almost every instance. Until The Music Group purchased Klark/Midas, they had no engineering staff of their own making original products per se. They do NOT test components when they arrive and verify tolerances. They do NOT have QC there. Those are two things that cost allot of money and people would not pay what it adds to a Behringer. Uli has stated in almost every interview he has done that Behringer is about making gear for the entry level that is cheap. He never said good. And rightly so.

The components they used ARE sub par. If you care to, put anything they make on a tech bench, break out the Precision One and go for it. That is why the stuff is so cheap and why when two of the same makes and models from the same production run have so many variables. Heck, even on the same product, like AD8000s and headphone mixers, you will find differences in knobs, knob travel, taper, etc.

There are some products that are fine, because they are hard to mess up. Cable checkers, 1/4" patchbays, etc.

On our side of it, we do not get support from the company. Being an authorized service center is a joke. On the majority of the line, you replace it once, put the defective unit in the trash compactor, and that is all the customer gets. Some units are so crappy that the company sends a replacement when the warranty card has been submitted, case in point, Behringer active speakers.

It costs us more money to sell this cheap stuff to customers that we pick and choose what we sell, because $100 saved here may cost us $400 there in tech time, phone time, paperwork, shipping, rental replacement, etc.

The only promising product that might be good and has still yet to be proven is the X32, which Behringer had little to do with. There is a bunch Midas software and such under there. BUT, the company has most of the dealers a little freaked out about carrying it, because we know now what Behringer support has been like for the last 15 years. We know what we throw away. We know how mad customers get. We are cautiously optimistic.

As far as everybody running scared, that is not true at all. You are not in the industry. You are seeing what is projected by someone somewhere. The industry treats Behringer like a rebellious redheaded step child, stealing the car and robbing stores. You obviously have not been to the NAMM show to see Hartley Peavey walk up with his product they copied from last year and threaten to sue their butts. The industry waits to see what stupid crap they are doing now so they can have their attorneys on them (Mackie, AKG, dbx, Peavey, QSC, Crown, Shure, etc, etc, etc).

Right now, if you call the top rep firms in the USA, they will tell you that even with the economy being slow, dealers are trying to raise the average sales dollars, not decrease them, and that there is no money or future in the low end. There is no customer satisfaction in the low end.

[Muleya]

Actually, Fcollazo, that new biasing system they have looks an AWFUL LOT like the self-biasing technology Marshall incorporated into their two newest heads...the AFD100 (Slash Signature) and YJM100 (Yngwie Malmsteen). It looks nearly identical, and the descriptions are nearly identical! I'm kind of assuming it is! And the AFD100 preceeded the technology showing up on the Bugera amps.

However, Marshall also incorporated what they are calling Electronic Power Attenuation into both of these amps, so I find it a little surprising Bugera didn't copy that, too. BTW, that Electronic Power Attenuation looks like the cat's meow, to me! It allows you to continuously dial a 100W amp down to 0.1W, but still keep the power amp acting like it's driving 100W. A 50W amp can be dialed down to 0.05W! I'm pretty well set with my JVM, so don't anticipate buying another amp for a good while, but I hope to get one equipped with the EPA at some point!

By the way, both of these amps, the AFD100 and the YJM100, and these technologies were both designed by the same man who designed the JVM...Santiago Alvarez, he designed the fantastic switching system on the JVM...seems to be bringing all kinds of new technologies! One really cool thing about the JVM is that while in some ways it involves a lot of complicated technology, he has actually simplified the signal pathways in the amp. They look pretty familiar if you look at schematics for the classics! And despite all they can do, they are so simple to use! I'm very excited to see what else he comes up with!

To be honest, I'm really scratching my head as to why Peavey hasn't sued Bugera. When I saw how similar the amps were, I wondered if Peavey was somehow involved...didn't see how else they could be practically identical!

[fcollazo]

so brent how do you see peavey as a company and the quality of their products?