The Petra Zone

Before I ask this, I want to let you know that I'm not going to bash on anyone's musicianship, ministry, songwriting ability, or anything. This thread is not to do that. Also, it's a call for opinion. Opinions are like armpits; nearly everyone has them, and a lot of them stink. What absolutely blesses one person may cause another to cringe, and vice versa. So if someone steps on your favorite Petra album or song, don't get too bent up over it.

But I am curious about this. Any band that has been around as long as Petra has is bound to do this at one or more point in their career. So I'm curious as to people's opinions. What do you see as being the biggest "misstep", as far as albums, or maybe as far as individual songs, in Petra's catalog?

For me, it would have to be _Double Take_. As I've mentioned before, I've been an off-and-on Pethead since 1983 or so, but the first Petra album I ever remember hearing in its entirety was _This Means War!_ Dad brought that tape home sometime in late 1988 or early 1989, followed shortly by his purchase of _On Fire!_.

We played TMW literally to death; that original tape is still at the house, but I doubt it's got a play left in it. It's STILL my favorite Petra album. We became Petra completists at that point, going back and picking up the entire GXV era, as well as the first two albums with Greg Hough and company. From _Petra Praise: The Rock Cries Out_ onward, we bought new Petra albums as they came out, and began really keeping up with the band.

I knew they'd had some personnel (and personal) issues, but the songwriting was still spot-on, and I continued to enjoy it. Even after Bob quit touring, the albums were still decent. Then came _Double Take_. The concept was great, and when I heard that there would be performance tracks available, I was stoked. (John's vocals are in my vocal range, and my mom's as well.) Then I heard the album.

BOY, was I disappointed. The triumph of "He Came, He Saw, He Conquered" is completely lost. I couldn't sing along with most of the arrangements, many of which seem to have been changed simply for the sake of change. _Double Take_ is probably the only "Petra" album I wouldn't buy, if it weren't for the sake of the collection.

On the plus side, the new songs, "Breathe In" and "The Longing", aren't too bad, but they're not really Petra, either. A couple of years ago, I built a 4-CD custom mix set to introduce someone who'd never heard Petra to their music (I loaned her the CDs and then got them back after a couple of weeks.) Because it was supposed to cover the complete catalog, I had to represent _DT_ somehow; I wound up using "Breathe In."

So my question to y'all is this: What are your personal "favorite" mistakes from the Petra catalog? Songs (or albums) you could have done without?

The biggest mistake is the sound on No Doubt. I believe the JAH sound would fit much better and would have set the standard for the next 10 yrs or so for the band.
The style and sound on No Doubt is no way shape or form Petra, I hate it from the start and no longer own a copy and will not ever again.

I agree 1000% with executioner. Around the time after Wake up call, when all of these other music styles were popping up on the Christian music scene, Petra was exploring how they could change things up to counteract loosing a portion of their fan base that started to follow after these other musical styles. When what they should have done is go back to there roots and put out a pure simple rock record like J&H, redefining the original style of Petra which was a simple pure rock and roll sound. And then, like ex said, move forward from there.

J&H does not sound like anything else that Petra did, so I hardly consider it a return to their roots. As much as I enjoy the album it really should have some guitar solos. I realize that Peter Furler, the producer, came from a band with limited guitar ability but Petra has a great player! WUC was the first misstep IMO. I think they could have gone one more with the Elefantes at the helm. After that, who knows what is a misstep and what was a change in the musical menu of the day. oh wait, Double Take was a huge mistake (step)

2 missteps in my opinion:
1) no live album released during the dreamteam era
2) not calling it quits after Wakeup Call (controversial I know, but I bet that's what everyone's thinking! )

off-topic: @ rexreed...I love your avatar and signature. I'm definitely a child of the '80s...I loved my Atari 2600.

Would have loved to have seen a live album during the "dream team" era myself.

You guys aren't the first I've ever heard to say that WUC was at the least, the beginning of the end for Petra.

I went back and re-listened to _No Doubt_ and _God Fixation_ yesterday after reading some thoughts here. My thoughts: _No Doubt_ is an excellent John Schlitt album. It's not really that great of a Petra album. Some great lyrics ("Heart of a Hero" and "No Doubt" stand out in that regard), but it just doesn't have the "feel" of a Petra album. I know that's kind of a subjective thing, but it's the best I can describe it.

As for _God Fixation_, while "St. Augustine's Pears" appeals to the amateur theologian in me, and the title track has a fun bass line, it starts off weak and doesn't really get any better.

After WUC, there are three weak albums (interrupted by _PP2_ and _Revival_.) I may be in the minority, but as a worship leader, I enjoyed both _PP2_ and _Revival_. Not up to the quality of the original Petra Praise, but still good stuff.

Petra had to change because their audience was walking away. If you look at the greatest selling bands of all time, the most memorable and historic bands of all time, they seldom change much, their popularity cycles in and out with the times. It is like a sine wave. They start out, they crest into popularity (their peak) then they come back around to crest again as their audience comes to. This is true with The Stones, Journey, Bon Jovi, etc, etc, etc. Petra was the Christian Def Leppard when John and the E brothers came on board. They are interchangeable in my book on multiple levels, except Petra never sounded good under the E brothers control. Just my opinion. So while I like where they were headed and what they were trying to do to compete with the world, which is what commercial CCM is all about (being an alternative...whatever you want to wrap it up in), I thought sonically they were inferior, lacking the meat and thickness that their secular counterparts had. But, they did not have Mutt Lange either.

There were other Christian bands on the scene by the time John came that were certainly harder, edgier, etc...but those bands did not have the stay power because they were harder, edgier, etc. Some of them had members sexually molesting children, robbing banks, doing drugs, living with married women, etc. Petra, not perfect, was more real in their walk and I think God honored that. The other bands were also shallow IMO. Christian metal and hard rock served up a great plate of cheese back in that day. Use Jesus a whole bunch of times and whammo, they had a song. Bob, Greg and John S (the least cheesy of that era) had served all of his cheese by the time MPTY was written and nobody could compete with his songwriting....NOBODY.

Petra had to change to keep up, hack off the 50 or so of us here who bother to post about it, and then continue (just as all bands do) to lose popularity because the next thing has happened. In Petra's case, they were facing what Ratt, Def Lep and all of the other big hair bands were facing....Nirvana and grunge. They made the right call IMO. No Doubt was one of the most successful singles in Petra's history on radio (thanks John), WUC was AWESOME and possibly the best sounding Petra record to be made yet, I completely discount and do not think of the Sonic Trickle Petra record is a real Petra record at all. When we get back on the bus with the next record, it is pretty decent, but still nothing done until J&H is REALLY Petra IMNSHO. Had Inpoop never happened and J&H been the album to be released the year Bob retired....Petra would have gone out BIGTIME and the demand for them today would have been greater than it is now.

Petra overstayed their welcome and instead of leaving people with wanting more, they made me wonder how many more times they would produce something that killed my desire to be a fan that has purchased every album multiple times and seen almost every tour at least one time, if not more. So, they mis-stepped by not quitting when Bob left. THAT would be the defining moment for me.

I see two causes for regret in Petra's history.

1. The production style from Back to the Street through Beyond Belief. It simply has not aged well, and it's aged even less well than other '80s hair rock/metal. There was a better way to capitalize on that sound without making the albums incredibly hard to listen to for the casual 21st-century rock fan. How do I know that? Because Brown Bannister did it on Wake Up Call.

2. Not quitting when Bob left. There are problems with the sound on No Doubt, but the biggest problem was the revolving door of musicians that began when Bob stopped touring with the band. It reached its peak with Louie's departure, a dark moment for the band, no matter how legitimate or understandable the reasons for the separation were. Asking for a Jekyll and Hyde sound when the market simply did not exist for that kind of style in the post-grunge era is unrealistic, and failure to provide it is not a misstep. In short, an evolution of styles was not a mistake. We can certainly quibble with the direction of that evolution, but rock music in the late 1990s sucked. Petra wasn't going to go the Bride route and release a rap-metal album, and I think we can all agree that is a wonderful thing, but that's what was popular then. I'm not sure Petra could have done anything to both stay true to their hard rock routes and stay relevant culturally (though if anyone could have done it, it might have been Bannister, whom they should have kept as producer rather than going to the Elefantes again for No Doubt), which is why quitting when Bob did would have been the best course of action.

But that's easy to say in retrospect. In 1994, Wake Up Call was a No. 1 album, won the band its third straight Grammy award, was named Rock Album of the Year at the Dove awards, and the band picked up a slew of Readers Choice awards from CCM, including favorite rock artist, favorite rock album and favorite song. Could you have walked away?

If the Elefante albums have not aged well, then what can be said about ALL the previous albums. You know, the records that sounded dated and cheap upon release? IMO the earlier albums are an aquired taste, and BTTR pretty much is my anecodotal evidence. As for WUC- it does sound good to this day, but the songs are so....bleh to me. Many of them sound more like D&K tunes rather than the Petra we were used to at the time. It might just be me but I remember BB and OF sounding better back in the day than the cd's do today. I still maintain the first misstep is with WUC, with a few others to follow.

Hahahaha. D&K tunes......hilarious. I like some of D&K....mostly the early stuff and then their last record. Everything commercial from them was bleh to me. Their double live LP was the best thing they did IMO.

Rock Solid? If so then I have to agree. I just downloaded it and man does it bring back memories. I honestly like it a lot better then CITAS- it just sounds better to me. As for Petra (since I do not want to hijack the thread) I think that in the day the E bros. albums sounded just fine. Would I like a little less drum in my face? Well sure but that's easy to say 20 years later.

I LOVE the Elefante-era albums.... the subject matter was bold. I actually did a minor remix on the title track to This Means War! (just on the intro...brickwalled the drums and added chorus and some reverb so it sounds like a whole troop of drummers. Thought about flanging it as well, but figured that would sound too much like Stryper.)

As for D&K, I wasn't sure if Brent was referring to _Rock Solid_, which is stellar IMO, or the older _No Turning Back_, which has its moments but is kinda...meh, overall. I loved DeGarmo and Key, probably starting with _Mission of Mercy_, which is another one we played to death, and especially _Communication_ and _Commander Sozo_.

It will be interesting to see, in 20 years or so, what tracks and albums Petra is remembered for. I'm betting on their '80s and EARLY '90s output standing the "Test of Time."

Which style guide requires underscores in place of quotation marks?

I'm guessing it's a faux underline, replacing italics for album titles.

I know WUC seemed to be on the light side compared to the previous 4-5 offerings but its production quality is top notch and it still sounds timeless today. Also its a very popular album sales wise with it being in the top 5 in Petra's Catalog.
I feel if Petra would have stuck with Bannister as producer and brought out a heavy guitar driven album like JAH then I think the 90's would have turned out alot better then they did.