Time to hang it up?

[Preacherman777]

This is one of the reasons that I think they were better off doing the Classic Petra thing, not only because Greg has retained much more singing ability than John has, but also because they actually had a full band of well known and appreciated Petra members. But alas, for whatever reasons, that I no longer care about getting into, they left that behind, and went back to that which was tired and old and no longer relevant in either a modern sense nor a classic sense and as such, I doubt that they will go very far. If they make some new music, great, I'll check it out, but as for live shows, I just don't have any interest. Back in the day, John was fantastic both live and in the studio, but now days, they can only make it really work in the studio.

[mikey32187]

Guys, it is just someone's opinion; don't get rattled over it. I don't think he is deliberately trying to be critical. He makes it pretty clear Petra means a lot to him. I don't agree with him on everything, but I think he's given some thought to what he's saying, and there may be people who feel the same way (although I'm not one of them).

Its the Petra druids that get upset. I have been lurking in these boards as well before I decided to start posting again. I am not saying you but generally speaking anyone that looks at Petra with any kind of objective sense gets the how dare you treatment, like we cant say anything critically about this band. I love Petra but I am inclined to agree that Petra has run its course. Until we get and if we get a new album I dont want a rehash of the JAH and Farewell tours.

[mikey32187]

This is one of the reasons that I think they were better off doing the Classic Petra thing, not only because Greg has retained much more singing ability than John has, but also because they actually had a full band of well known and appreciated Petra members. But alas, for whatever reasons, that I no longer care about getting into, they left that behind, and went back to that which was tired and old and no longer relevant in either a modern sense nor a classic sense and as such, I doubt that they will go very far. If they make some new music, great, I'll check it out, but as for live shows, I just don't have any interest. Back in the day, John was fantastic both live and in the studio, but now days, they can only make it really work in the studio.

Indeed

[zak89]

Greg has retained much more singing ability than John has-

Working on a full reply to the OP, but I have to object to this statement. Greg might have retained more range than John, and I love his new "richer" tone, but if we're comparing these guys to their heyday, the fact is that Greg has "lost it" to a much greater extent than John (I use the scare qutes because frankly I think this discussion/comparison is silly). Greg's trademark was the extreme falsetto wails on songs like "Adonai", "Godpleaser" or "Chameleon". He doesn't come anywhere close to those notes anymore (just compare the BTTR recordings to the originals, and keep a piano handy).

John's range has suffered as well, but range was never the hallmark of his singing style - some songs had high notes, but that was never his "trademark" like it was with Greg. I think his aggressive, lower tone on JAH was some of the best vocals I've heard - and he's more than capable of singing like that today. He's still got the powerful rasp that was his distinctive style, which is more than one can say for Greg.

Again, I think bringing up Greg's singing style in relation to John's is silly if not childish - they really can't be compared - but let's not pretend that either of their vocal abilities has persisted unchanged for 35 years. They both have, and they both need to adapt accordingly. Nothing new there.

[Preacherman777]

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that as a singer (generally speaking) Greg has more ability to pull it off now than John does. Greg has no problem singing the Classic songs, even if they are tuned down a bit, he still pulls it off well. So yes, he has lost some range, but then again, his range in his day was pretty much unbelievable, so the fact that he can even do as well as he does is pretty amazing when you consider how old he is. John on the other hand, just can't do it on any kind of consistent basis. When you are in the studio and you can do as many times as you need to get it right, it's one thing, but pulling it off night after night live is quite another. That's what I, and I think some others are saying. Greg can still do it night after night live, John can't. But then I agree with you, I don't want to be about comparing the two because in their respective days they were both amazing singers and I have always felt that John vs. Greg stuff was stupid, so it's not about who was ever better, it's just about who can do it now.

[Shell]

Well, it doesn't bother me when someone posts their opinion about whether they think Petra should continue or not...That is just an opinion and ultimately whether they choose to continue or not is up to them anyway. The Petra guys would be foolish to make decisions what direction they go based on posts on a message board, and I'm sure they know that.

However, it does bother me when people seem to think that because Petra has to deal with the general public its gives them license to discuss their personal business on a message board or when they start bickering about "who is better than who" or people who prefer different Petra eras start accusing each other of ulterior motives. It's a matter of personal preference, and in the big scheme of things, personal preference is not a big deal. I've said that sort of thing a number of times so I won't get into that again now, and I don't think that is what is going on here.

I agree it is silly to compare John's and Greg's voices; they have totally different voices and it isn't uncommon for a singer's voice to change over the years. They aren't in their 20s anymore. Just sayin'.

[executioner]

Guys, it is just someone's opinion; don't get rattled over it. I don't think he is deliberately trying to be critical. He makes it pretty clear Petra means a lot to him. I don't agree with him on everything, but I think he's given some thought to what he's saying, and there may be people who feel the same way (although I'm not one of them).

Its the Petra druids that get upset. I have been lurking in these boards as well before I decided to start posting again. I am not saying you but generally speaking anyone that looks at Petra with any kind of objective sense gets the how dare you treatment, like we cant say anything critically about this band. I love Petra but I am inclined to agree that Petra has run its course. Until we get and if we get a new album I dont want a rehash of the JAH and Farewell tours.

Please keep in mind that the same person that is saying these discouraging words about John and the current Petra is the same one that flames anyone that comes around and says ANYTHING remotely discouraging about Greg and Classic Petra.
BTW I disagree with his and others assessment about John's current vocal abilities but welcome their opinions without the flame war attached...

[executioner]

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that as a singer (generally speaking) Greg has more ability to pull it off now than John does. Greg has no problem singing the Classic songs, even if they are tuned down a bit, he still pulls it off well. So yes, he has lost some range, but then again, his range in his day was pretty much unbelievable, so the fact that he can even do as well as he does is pretty amazing when you consider how old he is. John on the other hand, just can't do it on any kind of consistent basis. When you are in the studio and you can do as many times as you need to get it right, it's one thing, but pulling it off night after night live is quite another. That's what I, and I think some others are saying. Greg can still do it night after night live, John can't. But then I agree with you, I don't want to be about comparing the two because in their respective days they were both amazing singers and I have always felt that John vs. Greg stuff was stupid, so it's not about who was ever better, it's just about who can do it now.

At least John is singing all his stuff live unlike with what went on the BTTR DVD and the BTTR Tour, plus all of John's vocals were live on the Farewell DVD; not opinion just the facts!!

[rexreed]

No they should not hang it up. Remember when they tried that eight years ago? There is still more music to be had in the group known as Petra.

How can you say that when they have been doing the JAH tour for the past eight year???

Easy- are the songs good? Then there is plenty of good music to be played. Is there is a new song that may pop up every once in a while, then groovy. As for Classic Petra, it's too bad the money wasn't there, but I was glad they didn't stay "hung up" for the couple years they were together. In a perfect world i would like to see dual lead vocals playing a full range of Petra styles. If that can't happen then I'll take what I can get. There is simply no advantage for me, as a listener. for Petra to "hang it up."

[rexreed]

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that as a singer (generally speaking) Greg has more ability to pull it off now than John does. Greg has no problem singing the Classic songs, even if they are tuned down a bit, he still pulls it off well. So yes, he has lost some range, but then again, his range in his day was pretty much unbelievable, so the fact that he can even do as well as he does is pretty amazing when you consider how old he is. John on the other hand, just can't do it on any kind of consistent basis. When you are in the studio and you can do as many times as you need to get it right, it's one thing, but pulling it off night after night live is quite another. That's what I, and I think some others are saying. Greg can still do it night after night live, John can't. But then I agree with you, I don't want to be about comparing the two because in their respective days they were both amazing singers and I have always felt that John vs. Greg stuff was stupid, so it's not about who was ever better, it's just about who can do it now.

At least John is singing all his stuff live unlike with what went on the BTTR DVD and the BTTR Tour, plus all of John's vocals were live on the Farewell DVD; not opinion just the facts!!

C'mon exe- sweetening audio is common. A lot of respected musicians do it. It's not the same as lip syncing! The Farewell and Classic Petra DVD's both could use a little work- Farewell could use a little sweetening and Classic didn't sound "live" enough for me.

[rexreed]

... But alas, for whatever reasons, that I no longer care about getting into, they left that behind, and went back to that which was tired and old and no longer relevant in either a modern sense nor a classic sense and as such,

Classic Petra played Houston, the fourth largest city in the U.S. at a church that was not close being full. I got the feeling that 2/3 of the 400 or so in attendance were members. The merchandise tables were barely touched and no one near me seemed to be familiar with the music. It was a barebones production, I enjoyed it but could not help but notice the deficiency in the audio mix (namely John Lawry, was he even plugged in?). Perhaps these things, show after show, are what led the members to leave CP behind? MONEY!

[Shell]

Classic Petra played Houston, the fourth largest city in the U.S. at a church that was not close being full. I got the feeling that 2/3 of the 400 or so in attendance were members. The merchandise table were barely touched and no one near me seemed to be familiar with the music. It was a barebones production, I enjoyed it but could not help but notice the deficiency in the audio mix (namely John Lawry, was he even plugged in?). Perhaps these things, show after show, are what led the members to leave CP behind? MONEY!

Good point--These guys do need to make enough to pay the bills. That is a big factor.

[executioner]

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that as a singer (generally speaking) Greg has more ability to pull it off now than John does. Greg has no problem singing the Classic songs, even if they are tuned down a bit, he still pulls it off well. So yes, he has lost some range, but then again, his range in his day was pretty much unbelievable, so the fact that he can even do as well as he does is pretty amazing when you consider how old he is. John on the other hand, just can't do it on any kind of consistent basis. When you are in the studio and you can do as many times as you need to get it right, it's one thing, but pulling it off night after night live is quite another. That's what I, and I think some others are saying. Greg can still do it night after night live, John can't. But then I agree with you, I don't want to be about comparing the two because in their respective days they were both amazing singers and I have always felt that John vs. Greg stuff was stupid, so it's not about who was ever better, it's just about who can do it now.

At least John is singing all his stuff live unlike with what went on the BTTR DVD and the BTTR Tour, plus all of John's vocals were live on the Farewell DVD; not opinion just the facts!!

C'mon exe- sweetening audio is common. A lot of respected musicians do it. It's not the same as lip syncing! The Farewell and Classic Petra DVD's both could use a little work- Farewell could use a little sweetening and Classic didn't sound "live" enough for me.

Little more than sweetening the audio was going on with the BTTR Tour; I wouldn't go as far as saying it was lip syncing but will say several times Greg was singing and his mic was no where near his mouth. How much was going on I'm not sure but there was some dubbing of vocals going on. The BTTR DVD was a total shame because even my wife can tell when Greg isn't really singing; the rockers are really obvious. In people minds I think most will take real over fake any day.

[executioner]

... But alas, for whatever reasons, that I no longer care about getting into, they left that behind, and went back to that which was tired and old and no longer relevant in either a modern sense nor a classic sense and as such,

Classic Petra played Houston, the fourth largest city in the U.S. at a church that was not close being full. I got the feeling that 2/3 of the 400 or so in attendance were members. The merchandise tables were barely touched and no one near me seemed to be familiar with the music. It was a barebones production, I enjoyed it but could not help but notice the deficiency in the audio mix (namely John Lawry, was he even plugged in?). Perhaps these things, show after show, are what led the members to leave CP behind? MONEY!

Ditto for the Plano, Tx(Dallas) show; plus you had the drummer going off on the sound mixing crew and actually had to be brought back out from behind the stage by the keyboard player so they could go on to the next song. BTW the meet/greet after the show was about 20 people and we could basically talk to the band members as long as we wanted. Louie was still somewhat steamed after the show and told me he had no guitar in monitor and never got it; I will give him credit though for playing flawlessly.

[shawnpfan2010]

Not that my 2 cents is worth any thing, I do know for fact that at the time of the BTTR taping Greg had, either the week before or the week of, a bout of laryngitis, so yes some of the higher notes were subed for that. However go and watch my recording of the entire CP concert at Tulsa and you tell me where he lip synced. Go and watch it on youtube "classic petra tulsa ok" if you can find any where on my recording that he faked it, I will pull the entire concert off youtube.