New Petra Project

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
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Mountain Man
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by Mountain Man » Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:48 am

curt wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:29 am
Some bands bring one or more additional players when they are playing live.
The Paul Coleman Trio had a permanent 4th member who played electric guitar in their live shows, but he was always in the background and never got a spotlight even during his solos, which I always found a little odd. I never understood why they didn't just make him an official member and change the name to "The Paul Coleman Band".
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by curt » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:26 am

Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:48 am
curt wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:29 am
Some bands bring one or more additional players when they are playing live.
The Paul Coleman Trio had a permanent 4th member who played electric guitar in their live shows, but he was always in the background and never got a spotlight even during his solos, which I always found a little odd. I never understood why they didn't just make him an official member and change the name to "The Paul Coleman Band".
While I see your point there could be all sorts of good reasons for not having him as an official member. If you hire someone with a very specific task it is a lot less likely that there will be disagreements, that he would think his own ideas, visions, styles and sounds should influence the band. A "hired gun" is more likely to just do what he is asked and payed to do without protesting or making too much trouble.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by brent » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:00 am

Well, some members of Petra were essentially hired guns, without equity, ownership, creative input or ability to borrow against royalties. There can be legal reasons (contracts, business arrangements) for not bringing new members in. It's all relative. Consider The Stones.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by curt » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:23 am

brent wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:00 am
Well, some members of Petra were essentially hired guns, without equity, ownership, creative input or ability to borrow against royalties. There can be legal reasons (contracts, business arrangements) for not bringing new members in. It's all relative. Consider The Stones.
Given how things turned out for Petra it would perhaps have been better to simply identify the band with fewer persons in some of the later years. If you go to a Queen concert these days the band Queen consists of two members. There are quite many people on stage though. And very few people would note if they changed the bass player.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by brent » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:18 pm

Right. I agree.

Some bands are personality-driven. Some are song-driven. Most people attending Foreigner shows don't know or care that Foreigner is 100% cover band from time to time. Not one person on stage is on any of their hit records. It was the music that drew people. People didn't really know the band well, and they had lots of changes. Conversely, Pat Benatar was actually a band but she was the namesake and front-woman. She didn't change, but everyone else aside from her husband has changed a couple of times. She was the name and personality and nobody else really mattered (outside of songwriting).

Will people quit going to Journey shows since Steve and Ross were fired again? Has Bon Jovi been adversely affected by Sambora leaving? Nah. Some people just "don't matter" in the grand scheme of things. In Petra, everyone can walk away and there will be some band called Petra on stage drawing a couple of hundred people here and there. Singers don't matter. Bob doesn't matter. Nobody really matters as history has shown. Petra has been able to rework itself and adapt. Now, have we hardcore fans liked it all? Ugh....no.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by Mountain Man » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:08 pm

I think the hardcore fans of any band are annoyed when there are hardly any original members on stage. There are still people who insist that Journey without Steve Perry isn't really Journey. The casual audience doesn't know the difference, of course.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:33 pm

Mountain Man wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:08 pm
I think the hardcore fans of any band are annoyed when there are hardly any original members on stage. There are still people who insist that Journey without Steve Perry isn't really Journey. The casual audience doesn't know the difference, of course.
👏👏 I agree :)
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by Mountain Man » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:32 am

Although when you have a "revolving door band" like Petra, it's hard to say who the "real" band is. :lol:
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by curt » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:48 am

Mountain Man wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:32 am
Although when you have a "revolving door band" like Petra, it's hard to say who the "real" band is. :lol:
Defining the "real" band by fewer members would make it less of a revolving door band. If the bass player never was a member of the band then Petra did not lose a member when he started to do other stuff. Simple as that.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:37 am

For me, the real band was John, Johnny, Bob, Ronny & Louie.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by curt » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:00 am

Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:37 am
For me, the real band was John, Johnny, Bob, Ronny & Louie.
I guess many would say that.

If that team is not available, I would rather see a version of Petra where John and Bob were simply presented as Petra than seeing them as being two out of four or five members of Petra.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by George Harrison » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:53 am

I agree with Diehard and Curt. If I was to go see Petra I'd want to at least see John and Bob; it's not the same without them. Beyond that though I don't particularly care who else is in the lineup, though I'd like to see Louie and Ronny or Mark.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by Mountain Man » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:39 pm

Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:37 am
For me, the real band was John, Johnny, Bob, Ronny & Louie.
There are two line-ups that I would classify as "real Petra":

Greg Volz; Bob Hartman; John Slick; Mark Kelly; Louie Weaver

and

John Schlitt; Bob Hartman; John Lawry; Ronnie Cates; Louie Weaver

I base this on the simple fact that no other line-ups made any significant contributions to the Petra catalog (ignoring the fact that not every member of the band necessarily played on each album). After Wake-Up Call, there was a different line-up for each album until they called it quits with Farewell. I think at this point, "real Petra" could be defined as John Schlitt and Bob Hartman, although perhaps that's unfair to Greg Bailey who has been the band's official bassist for longer than anybody else, he just hasn't played on any albums except Farewell.
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:21 pm

Mountain Man wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:39 pm
Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:37 am
For me, the real band was John, Johnny, Bob, Ronny & Louie.
There are two line-ups that I would classify as "real Petra":

Greg Volz; Bob Hartman; John Slick; Mark Kelly; Louie Weaver

and

John Schlitt; Bob Hartman; John Lawry; Ronnie Cates; Louie Weaver

I base this on the simple fact that no other line-ups made any significant contributions to the Petra catalog (ignoring the fact that not every member of the band necessarily played on each album). After Wake-Up Call, there was a different line-up for each album until they called it quits with Farewell. I think at this point, "real Petra" could be defined as John Schlitt and Bob Hartman, although perhaps that's unfair to Greg Bailey who has been the band's official bassist for longer than anybody else, he just hasn't played on any albums except Farewell.
I agree
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Re: New Petra Project

Post by dihigo » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:38 pm

Mountain Man wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:39 pm
Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:37 am
For me, the real band was John, Johnny, Bob, Ronny & Louie.
There are two line-ups that I would classify as "real Petra":

Greg Volz; Bob Hartman; John Slick; Mark Kelly; Louie Weaver

and

John Schlitt; Bob Hartman; John Lawry; Ronnie Cates; Louie Weaver

I base this on the simple fact that no other line-ups made any significant contributions to the Petra catalog (ignoring the fact that not every member of the band necessarily played on each album). After Wake-Up Call, there was a different line-up for each album until they called it quits with Farewell. I think at this point, "real Petra" could be defined as John Schlitt and Bob Hartman, although perhaps that's unfair to Greg Bailey who has been the band's official bassist for longer than anybody else, he just hasn't played on any albums except Farewell.
While Greg Bailey only played bass on one Petra album, he sang background vocals on Jekyll & Hyde, Jekyll & Hyde (En Español), was the conductor for Classic Petra's 2 live albums, and played cellos and violas on CPR's Back to the Rock II. However, I get your point.
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