The Petra Zone

Is someone updating John's "tour" page on his website? There are no listed events subsequent to 09/09/07, over a month ago.
Andy from Indiana

Yes, I'm updating it. The page is totally up to date.

So, as you can see - things have ground to a HALT.

I do not know why, because II Guys are TERRIFIC! I put out emails, newsletters, press releases - and I do get responses, but that seems to be as far as it goes.

Most of the problem (when inquirers do answer me back) seems to be financial on the church's end. They don't have the budget for it, even though the cost to bring in these 4-time Grammy winners is at rock bottom.

The people who ask me don't seem to want to work too hard to raise the funds, because I rarely hear back from them. I give them all kinds of ideas, but that's where it ends.

It's so very sad, because you CAN put on a show yourself - I did! and I knew NOTHING about concerts - I hadn't even GONE to one when I signed my first contract. I just knew it was something God gave me to do, and so I did it, with His help and guidance.

I do remember a while back about someone who put up a post that asked the Petheads to donate ONE dollar a month to an account that was set up to help get concerts for John and Bob by helping churches with the funding.

Less than 5 people put in some dollars that was enough to help pay for a Sunday morning church service out in California for a church that just couldn't do it without help.

But other than that original handful, there is one person who donates larger amounts every few months, and one person who makes a donation every month, like clockwork.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but every little bit could add up to more shows on the calendar.

Sue,

Where would I send the money? ... I wonder if it would be possible to get a paypal account set up for it? .. that would make it seem more convienent .... regardless, I would be willing to donate.

-Stephen

You are so sweet to want to help, Stephen!
It gladdens my heart to see a 18-year-old wanting to help.

I do have a Paypal account all set up for this specific purpose. It's verified and all too.

The addy to use is: [email protected]

I put all funds into a separate account called "The Pethead Concert Fund," which is with Wells Fargo Bank.

The account has $101 in it.

The paypal deal is a great idea. You could have a page that has paypal cart buttons in varying amounts. $5, $10, $50, etc.
I currently live in central PA, and there are several concert promoters in the area. Creation concerts/Come Alive, and Vertical Concerts come to mind. Mybe they would be interested or could point you in the direction of churches that would be interested.
What about the West Michigan, Grand Rapids area. I spent 7 years there. Very christian up there. They a get a lot of national acts rolling through there all the time. I could see there being a lot of churches that would have them. It could be a mini tour. I was a student at Grace bible College in their music program. At the time it was a Christian Music Industry program. Now they have tweaked it into digital media and worship arts. They had Kevin Brandow come do a show and Q&A for students while I was there. They've had other Nashville guys up there as well. I could see them being interested in Bob and John, especially with the number of guitar students they have. If you have an official letter that you send out, that might a good place to send it to. Their website is gbcol.edu, and you can find the appropriate contact info there.
Also, the guy who runs this website, www.recordproductionco.com, is a former professor at the college. I'll bet he has a lot of contacts in the Grand Rapids area. You could shoot him an email from his website and maybe he'd be willing to provide you with some help. He's got contacts with Family Christian Stores, which is headquarted up there. I could see some in store appearances. If you got some bookings up there, I'll bet the local Christian Radio stations would help promote them.
Where's Jonathan? He's a former GBC student, and he also attends a large church up there. Maybe he could get you some contacts.
I wish I could help you out more with some stuff in the PA area. Unfortunately we attend a very small church. I can rattle off some churches that have a lot of concerts and other events.
What if you made offical letters available for petheads to get and mail them to churches in their area on their dime?

GMan

You could shoot him an email from his website

I did and it bounced back... I had send you an email on this - you didn't get it?

The Paypall account IS in place... so anyone who wants to help support a church and get II Guys out there can do so.

Let me ask you all this:

If I were to create a flyer, with II Guys booking info on it - would you be willing to download it and pass it out to churches around your town?

If we mailed you already made copies - would you be willing to put a stamp on it and send it out to your local churches?

In essence - be a street team???

Sue, you should get the master church mailing list from CCCLI and send info to the legally operating churches, which likely have the budget to bring in 2 Guys.

The downloadable flyer sounds like a great idea. For anyone that's willing to spend a few bucks, you can go to Office Depot, or whatever store you have in your area for office supplices, and get really good paper for professional looking flyers and brochures that is made specifically for your home inkjet printer. Is there a website that interested parties can go to and get music samples and all the need to know info for a II Guyz show, and the ability to contact you?

IIGuys.com will be up and running shortly.

In the meantime there are II Guys pages on John's site(s):

http://www.johnwschlitt.com/promoters/iiguys.html

http://johnwschlitt.com/fans/iiguys.htm

Brent, do you really think they would sell a list like that? I kind of doubt it.... but I'd love to have it.

sue d. wrote:If we mailed you already made copies - would you be willing to put a stamp on it and send it out to your local churches?

In essence - be a street team???

I could committ to mailing copies.

Another suggestion for the concert fund is to post a sticky thread so folks can find the info on how to donate when they are able. I know I lost track of how to donate and never took the time to ask again. I'm a little strapped right now but hope to donate something soon.

--Carol

I would just like to say that I have ZERO problems with John & bob getting paid the amount of money they are asking for if they can get it. I believe they are worth more than what they charge but that is coming from a hardcore fan. As a promoter though I think it is a little steep and very difficult if not impossible to recoup the money. I believe in doing the "ministry investment" approach as opposed to the "concert for profit". That is the only way a church can book this show. With that said I have looked into booking 2guys for a show in Florida but I cannot justify bringing them in for several thousand dollars. If my intent is to have a "ministry outreach" then I want to get as many people out to the "event" as I can. If I'm spending 5 or 6 thousand dollars then I want to "invest" that into the biggest event I can do. Let's face it people 2guys is not drawing 500-600 people just on their name. I can't promote the show and get 500-600 people to fork out money for tickets. About the only way that is possible is for a large church with a large member base to bring them in and sell to their members. With that being the case it eliminates mid-size and smaller venues and churches. I run shows every month sometimes twice a month and operate at a loss between (100-500 dollars) per show on about half of them and I break even and make a couple hundred on the other half. That can be absorbed but 5-6 thousand dollars cannot be absorbed by a smaller venue.

finally I will say this. The law of free market dictates the worth to the "general" public. If 90% of promoters say the price is too steep, then the market dictates lower costs. If the promoters don't book because of the price then that means one of two things must happen. A. Lower the asking price. B. Don't have shows. Plan B. is what wins out almost every time because plan be doesn't put you in the hole financially.

I think everyone would agree that if everyone on this message board lived in the same town John & Bob/Petra could play a show once a month and we would probably pay for a ticket every time. But tha's not reality (unfortunately). That's just a little of my perspective as a promoter. Again I do not begrudge the price they are asking. If they can get it More Power To Ya. I on the other hand cannot justify paying it knowing the response will not even come close to covering the cost. As a fan I would pay as mush as $50-75 bucks a ticket to see Petra maybe more depending on circumstances but as a promoter I am asked to pay $5 thousand and that I cannot do.

tim

I agree 100%.

However, I do not see concerts as outreach. People don't generally go to Christian concerts that they have never heard of. 98% +/- are going to be churched people.

For a concert to be evangelistic, the venue and/or crowd must be secular. That has been my statement to John about his solo career and Petra. Ok, so you are a Christian artist. So you will only sing for God. Tell the world, not the choir. The church universal is not buying as much Christian music as they are secular. The church universal is not being educated about Christian music, much less Christian music of the past. The Church could care less, unless you are the flavor of the week.

I love Bob and John, I love the acoustic thing. But holy crap. If you pay for two guys that ARE Petra, singing Petra songs, then it doesn't take much to much from a hardcore fan to yell "TURN IT UP, BRING OUT THE REST OF THE BAND AND LETS ROCK." I know that the ministry of IIGuys is different, but for me it is hard to separate the two.

Advertising is stupid expensive for radio. Not many people listen to it anyway. I have no idea how to market local shows now. The only sold out shows we have had were Amy Grant (with the KC Symphony), Sandi Patty, Avalon, etc. Unless you are "one of those", it is hard to cover your net. The more expensive the show, the easier to recoup. Why, those expensive artists know they can fill seats, thus the price. Amy Grant gets $60k for her. Sold!

I'm on the same page as far as concerts being used as an outreach. When I said outreach I ment it in the bigger sense of not just secular but Christian people to. Using it as a ministry/entertainment event as opposed to just an "entertainment" event such as Amy Grant or even P.O.D. Your points are 100% true I know when I promote a Christian artist 90% or more of the audience is comprised of like minded people of faith. The other 10% is usually brought by a christian friend. So a christian gets ministered and entertained by a positive artist and likewise a secular person can receive both too. This usually ONLY works when christians take the initiative to bring someone with them. It is up to the people to make it a ministry event. In a different sense if I was just wanting the event itself to bring in non-christians I would book someone that would appeal to a secular audience for the event. For instance I can book 2guys and bring in a 90% christian crowd and lose $5000 or I could bring in the wrestler STING for 5000 and pack the place out with non christians regardless if a christian invited them or not. I would still be out the same amount of money but instead of a 90% christian crowd it would be closer to 50-50. this is just an example. I know everyone on this board wishes this was different but it is what it is. Like brent said it is a flavor of the month scenario and personally I believe 2guys is just 2steep for the average venue and promoter. Personally I will continue to support 2guys/petra's ministry and music. God knows I've already spent hundreds on their CD's & DVD's and hundreds more on concerts and other merchandise. That's why I thought I would bring some perspective from a promoter perspective and not just the hardcore fans take on the issue.

Tim
P.s. can't wait for the new JS album.

as a promoter I am asked to pay $5 thousand and that I cannot do.

I'm not sure where you're getting that figure from, but II Guys do NOT go out for $5K. Who told you that?

You know, concerts have always been a sort of 2-sided affair. You have the outreach side, and you also have the financial side. You have to be wise and balance both.

I've been promoting shows since 1994... I've done maybe 12-15 in all over the years. If you count on ticket sales to recoupe costs - you're right - it probably won't happen no matter WHAT act you book. Forget it unless you have a mega-name group or individual. At least that's been my experience.

And most churches can't book the big names like Grant, or MWS. They book the smaller acts. That's why they need to WORK to raise the funds to cover any shortfall that may occur when you book lesser-drawing acts. It CAN be done.

I went to a church that had a max of 700 members. I got NOTHING from them as far as support except $300 for the first show. But I worked, and worked hard to raise the money ahead of time so I wouldn't HAVE to worry about recouping costs through ticket sales. The Lord blessed my efforts, showed me how to do it, and I've never lost a dime because I WORKED to make sure a loss would not occur.

For a concert to be evangelistic, the venue and/or crowd must be secular

No. I disagree. All but one of my concerts were held in public venues ... school, armory, city park, etc. to make it more comfortable for a non-Christian or someone of another denomination to come.

But an unsaved person is not going to go to one of these concerts unless he goes with a saved friend. The location really isn't going to matter, because he's not going to go ALONE to a Christian event, unless it's outdoors in a park, and the guy just happens to be walking past.

HOWEVER: There are plenty of unsaved people IN THE CHURCH itself. Just because your name is on the books doesn't meant you're right with God. Many people are searching, even within the church. I personally have seen this, have heard it and have received emails from those very people. Evangelism can also be done within the church BIG time.

I have no idea how to market local shows now.

Grass-roots effort, buddy. Talk to me. Think outside the box, use every connection in the media you have, plaster the town with information and get the word out. Trust me - it CAN be done. We did this very thing for our NYEve show with II Guys. It turned out to be a big event that even I thought; people came and we did well financially.

For instance I can book 2guys and bring in a 90% christian crowd and lose $5000

What?? LOSE $5K? If you're losing $5,000, then you're doing something wrong, friend. Something very wrong. Where are you getting those kinds of figures from? You must be budgeting an extreme amount for venue rental, radio, advertising or SOMETHING, because it surely doesn't cost figures like that unless you're living in Hollywood or something.

I believe 2guys is just 2steep for the average venue and promoter

What do you consider FAIR for the average promoter? $500? $1000?

The pricing on II Guys is MEANT for the average promoter... believe me, John and Bob surely are not getting rich with this. Not at all. In fact, what they make on a concert is PITIFULL, considering who they are: 4 time Grammy winning artist who have been inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame. You show me a secular artist with the same credentials who would even consider going out for nickels and dimes. It's not going to happen.

I KNOW that you have to walk a fine line when it comes to finances vs. ministry... I'm in a unique position in the fact I've walked BOTH lines - as a promoter, a II Guys promoter, and as an agent.

But in the end - what is going to count for more? The fact that you were careful with your concert business finances, taking the less-stressful financial road and coming out ahead by booking a big act that may or may not have any evangelistic effect - - or the fact that you booked a duo whom you KNEW would be one of the most evangelistic groups out there that would uplift and encourage an audience in an incredible way - even if it meant that you would have to work harder to break even? Or maybe even take a loss?

I myself have chosen the latter.

Sue, what I mean is that grassroots stuff is not going to work if you want to bring in more than 500 people. The average return is 10% max for a succesfulk advertising campaign. Marketing people will tell you that. So, you would have to reach 5,000 people to get the 500 to show. Who are you gonna target 5k Christians all at once?

Take Tulsa for example. Tulsa has more churches per square mile than any other city. It is the prodestant vatican. In that city and surrounding area of 500k people, Christian radio has a .7 to 1 share max. Christians do not listen to Christian radio much comparitively. It is crazy that Christian radio advertising is often more expensive than secular, and less effective. Advertise where the Christian people listen, secular radio, secular internet, secular retailers.

What has happened in this and similar markets is the churches have killed the concert market for promoters, by offering free shows and incorporating them into the church services. That makes it really hard to get people to pay to see the bands/artists off-site. Combine that with the fact that the off-site concerts compete with other events.

The average church in the USA is 200 people or less. That is average. So you have to target above average churches, if that is your niche.

I agree that churches are full of lost people. But the world that needs to hear the gospel for the first time is likely not there. People KNOW what church is for. It would be more likely to have the gospel heard by omeone who has never heard it in a non-church environment. As soon as I typed this, I immediately thought of a few churches where this isn't true.

If grassroots worked, indie's would be selling out large venues. It is a limited attempt at too few people. ALL major money making tours have major advertising budgets. Look at PollStar. It reveals the truth. It takes a million to make a million.