"Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by George Harrison » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:20 pm

What's Donald Trump doing on the petra zone again? I just had to deal with the fact that Canada gets another four years of Justin Trudeau, seems like I just can't avoid politics wherever I go :lol:
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:41 pm

Hey the girls in our family never talk about politics and that's what we ended up talking about on the way home from the dentist :lol:
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by Mountain Man » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:36 pm

p-freak wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:52 pm
Mountain Man wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:15 pm
Finally, there's the vinyl version which I've never heard but I understand is even more trimmed down than the CD
Wrong. The vinyl version is the intermediate version between the cassette and the CD. The CD was heavily cut down to fit 74 minutes, and there were no such rigid constraints with the vinyl version. The European vinyl version has Greg's speech at the end of the concert cut out, so not all vinyl versions are identical.

Regarding the VHS, you have to remember that the audio was recorded at three different shows, while the VHS was captured at one show. So there are bound to be differences between the VHS and the audio versions.
I'm not sure you're right about the VHS. The video might be from a single show, but the audio is definitely from the album mix because it is note-for-note identical.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by curt » Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:30 am

George Harrison wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:20 pm
What's Donald Trump doing on the petra zone again? I just had to deal with the fact that Canada gets another four years of Justin Trudeau, seems like I just can't avoid politics wherever I go :lol:
Obama was mentioned first, then Trump returned (my fault :lol: ). It is on topic to the extent that it is going to be interesting to see if Trump can beat the system.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by p-freak » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:43 am

Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:36 pm
I'm not sure you're right about the VHS. The video might be from a single show, but the audio is definitely from the album mix because it is note-for-note identical.
The video is clearly from one show. Same room, same audience, same clothing.

They might have dubbed the video with the best audio, but I sincerely hope they didn't do that. I would just assume that the bits that are present on the audio version and not on the video version are the bits from the other shows. And also, if a band plays the same show day after day, I'm not that surprised if two recordings from two consecutive days sound note for note the same.

Regarding my earlier comment that the NOTW tour finished in August, that's not true. There was a short leg from Sept to Nov after that. So that fits into the BTS Jan. 85 story.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:51 am

If Beat The System is from 1984,
image.jpg
image.jpg (1.54 MiB) Viewed 8800 times
and Captured in Time and Space is from 1985,
image.jpg
image.jpg (1.52 MiB) Viewed 8800 times
that could mean that Beat The System was released in 1984, and they had some tours in 1985, which would've been recorded for CITAS, right?
Just my thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by George Harrison » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:35 pm

Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:51 am
If Beat The System is from 1984, image.jpg and Captured in Time and Space is from 1985, image.jpg that could mean that Beat The System was released in 1984, and they had some tours in 1985, which would've been recorded for CITAS, right?
Just my thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think that seems likely
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by George Harrison » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:36 pm

curt wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:30 am
George Harrison wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:20 pm
What's Donald Trump doing on the petra zone again? I just had to deal with the fact that Canada gets another four years of Justin Trudeau, seems like I just can't avoid politics wherever I go :lol:
Obama was mentioned first, then Trump returned (my fault :lol: ). It is on topic to the extent that it is going to be interesting to see if Trump can beat the system.
Oh yes, it will be interesting. I will get my popcorn ready and watch the American election next year.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:42 pm

:lol: Haha
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by Mountain Man » Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:07 pm

p-freak wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:43 am
Mountain Man wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:36 pm
I'm not sure you're right about the VHS. The video might be from a single show, but the audio is definitely from the album mix because it is note-for-note identical.
The video is clearly from one show. Same room, same audience, same clothing.

They might have dubbed the video with the best audio, but I sincerely hope they didn't do that. I would just assume that the bits that are present on the audio version and not on the video version are the bits from the other shows. And also, if a band plays the same show day after day, I'm not that surprised if two recordings from two consecutive days sound note for note the same.
I'm certain they did dub in the album audio on top of the video recording because the VHS/DVD audio is not merely similar but literally identical. The crowd noises, Greg's inflection and nuance, his mid-song comments (such as "Now everybody on this one" during the intro for "More Power To Ya", or "We're gonna praise the Lord, everybody, now come on!" during the lead in to "Let Everything That Hath Breath"), everything is exactly the same with the exception of whatever edits were made depending on the version.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by p-freak » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:31 pm

Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:51 am
If Beat The System is from 1984, and Captured in Time and Space is from 1985, that could mean that Beat The System was released in 1984, and they had some tours in 1985, which would've been recorded for CITAS, right?
Just my thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
CITAS was recorded in late November 1985, no way it was released in the same year, so I wouldn't put too much stock on the years in Bob's book.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:50 pm

p-freak wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:31 pm
Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:51 am
If Beat The System is from 1984, and Captured in Time and Space is from 1985, that could mean that Beat The System was released in 1984, and they had some tours in 1985, which would've been recorded for CITAS, right?
Just my thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
CITAS was recorded in late November 1985, no way it was released in the same year, so I wouldn't put too much stock on the years in Bob's book.
Ok it was just a guess :lol:
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by jericho29 » Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:51 pm

This should be definitive proof.
Petra -Beat the System 1985.jpg
Petra -Beat the System 1985.jpg (513.56 KiB) Viewed 3526 times
From the January 1985 industry trade Musicline magazine by CCM.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by jericho29 » Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:36 pm

Take a look at this review of BTS from Musicline (industry mag of CCM in 1985) What do they mean there is no trademark Ballad on BTS? What do you call "Hollow Eyes".
Petra Beat the system review.jpg
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by George Harrison » Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:14 am

jericho29 wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:36 pm
Take a look at this review of BTS from Musicline (industry mag of CCM in 1985) What do they mean there is no trademark Ballad on BTS? What do you call "Hollow Eyes".
Hollow Eyes is definitely a ballad. One of Petra's saddest imo.
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