"Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

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Post by executioner » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:52 am

brent wrote:It was out in 84. It may not have been available in some stores until 85. I was listening to it in 84.

I thought the big deal was with BTTS?
I thought the same thing Brent. BTTS was recorded before CITAS; That should be more of a conversation piece.
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BTTS Recorded Before Volz Left???

Post by Mike Beidler » Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:56 am

executioner wrote: I thought the same thing Brent. BTTS was recorded before CITAS; That should be more of a conversation piece.
Wait. Are you saying that the entirety of BTTS was recorded before the CITAS concert?!?! Did Greg lay down vocals for it only to have them replaced by Schlitt later?

Dude, what I wouldn't give to hear those tracks, if they exist. Kinda like Kansas' Vinyl Confession demos with Steve Walsh singing. A completely different experience.
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Re: BTTS Recorded Before Volz Left???

Post by executioner » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:08 pm

Mike Beidler wrote:
executioner wrote: I thought the same thing Brent. BTTS was recorded before CITAS; That should be more of a conversation piece.
Wait. Are you saying that the entirety of BTTS was recorded before the CITAS concert?!?! Did Greg lay down vocals for it only to have them replaced by Schlitt later?

Dude, what I wouldn't give to hear those tracks, if they exist. Kinda like Kansas' Vinyl Confession demos with Steve Walsh singing. A completely different experience.
No it was recorded without vocals in August 1985 and CITAS was recorded in October/November 1985. Everyone knew Greg was leaving when BTS came out, and one of the main reasons they CITAS was they had a contract with producer JDB to do one more album and he was leaving with Greg.
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Post by Dan » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:15 am

brent wrote:It was out in 84. It may not have been available in some stores until 85. I was listening to it in 84.

I thought the big deal was with BTTS?
yeah sure was 1984, so what month did BTTS come out in 86'???

and when was BTTS recorded 85' without vocals???
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Post by WR1U » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:09 am

btts came out labor day weekend 1986
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by bertgangl » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm

*******
Being the @[email protected] music collector, I've noticed that there's considerable controversy over which year Beat the System was released: 1984 or 1985.

My guess is that the album was recorded in 1984 but not released until 1985. Is that the gist?[/i]
*******

I'm VERY late to the party on this one, but, on the off chance that you're still interested: your guess is correct.

According to the Jan 13, 1985, edition of the Pittsburgh Press newspaper, Petra's Beat the System album was due to ship to mainstream outlets on the A&M label, and to religious outlets on the Star Song label, "this month," which would have been Jan 1985.

There was no mention in the various newspaper archives of the album any time during 1984, so that pretty much seals the deal, I'd say.

Again, only eleven years late, but I hope that helps!
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by George Harrison » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:25 pm

bertgangl wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm
*******
Being the @[email protected] music collector, I've noticed that there's considerable controversy over which year Beat the System was released: 1984 or 1985.

My guess is that the album was recorded in 1984 but not released until 1985. Is that the gist?[/i]
*******

I'm VERY late to the party on this one, but, on the off chance that you're still interested: your guess is correct.

According to the Jan 13, 1985, edition of the Pittsburgh Press newspaper, Petra's Beat the System album was due to ship to mainstream outlets on the A&M label, and to religious outlets on the Star Song label, "this month," which would have been Jan 1985.

There was no mention in the various newspaper archives of the album any time during 1984, so that pretty much seals the deal, I'd say.

Again, only eleven years late, but I hope that helps!
I was under the impression it was released in 85 or 86. I agree, don't think it was released in 84
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by Progfan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:09 pm

It’s so hard to remember that far back. I have thought all these years that it was 1984, probably because any copy I had was labeled with the 1984 copyright date. At least parts of the above info seem to be correct, in that A&M was apparently slated to release it in 1985. The problem with using that as the definitive year is that A&M issued pressings of all Petra albums up to that point in 1985. Adding to the confusion is the Hollow Eyes single release, which has a message from Compassion International on the sleeve, dated December 1984. So the album was finished in 1984, but very close to 1985? Maybe it was available in some markets in 1984 and others in 1985? Wikipedia says it was released in 1985, but Discogs says 1984. I know this is all just trivia, but still interesting.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by Mountain Man » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:15 pm

What a thread bump... 11-years later!

But this caught my attention (emphasis mine):
executioner wrote:
Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:29 am
I know this has always made me wonder, because I first bought the cassette version in early 1985 and it has 1984 on it, but later that year I bought the CD version(which one song is shorter) and all liner notes say 1985 on it, including for each individual song. The samething is for my CITAS copies I have 1985 for the cassette and 1986 for the CD.
I had never heard this before. Which Beat the System track is shortened on the CD?

And speaking of Captured in Time and Space, there are at least four different cuts of that album:
  • The cassette version is the longest and most complete including the full John Lawry and Louie Weaver solos, and the song "The Great I Am"
  • The CD version has a lot of cuts to individual songs to shorten them slightly, the John Lawry and Louie Weaver solos are trimmed, and the song "The Great I Am" is missing
  • Then there's the VHS version (later released on DVD) which cuts out most of Greg's banter between songs, removes "Computer Brains", "Speak to the Sky", and "Visions", shortens John Lawry's solo even more than the CD cut ("The Race" is missing in its entirety), but restores most other songs to the their full length and even includes an extended version of "Without Him We Can Do Nothing", a longer version of Greg's altar call, and "The Great I Am"
  • Finally, there's the vinyl version which I've never heard but I understand is even more trimmed down than the CD
This is one album I would love to see re-mixed/remastered and released as a double CD to give us the cassette cut in better fidelity. Of course it'll never happen since they would probably only sell about 10 copies. Maybe 11.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by p-freak » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:48 pm

I don't think there's a BTS CD with a shortened song. There is absolutely no reason for that.

The oldest CD pressings have copyright 1984 on them, but I think that January 1985 sounds about right. I can imagine that they were ready for a late 1984 release on Star Song (Petra finished touring NOTW in August), and that the distribution deal with A&M caused it to be pushed back to January 1985 because they wanted to do Christian and mainstream market simultaneouly, but that is pure speculation on my part.

Fact is that the BTS tour kicked off in February, so it seems very likely that the album was released in Jan. 1985. I don't know if back in the day they used to release singles before the album, and then December 1984 on the Hollow Eyes single makes a lot of sense. There is an April 1985 radio special release.
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Re: "Beat the System" Release Date Controversy

Post by p-freak » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:52 pm

Mountain Man wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:15 pm
Finally, there's the vinyl version which I've never heard but I understand is even more trimmed down than the CD
Wrong. The vinyl version is the intermediate version between the cassette and the CD. The CD was heavily cut down to fit 74 minutes, and there were no such rigid constraints with the vinyl version. The European vinyl version has Greg's speech at the end of the concert cut out, so not all vinyl versions are identical.

Regarding the VHS, you have to remember that the audio was recorded at three different shows, while the VHS was captured at one show. So there are bound to be differences between the VHS and the audio versions.
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Re:

Post by curt » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:10 pm

sue d. wrote:
Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:11 pm
hehehe.... you're SO bad, Brent! :P
Well, to put things into perspective, there is another guy who, perhaps, should say "umm..." once in a while in order to allow himself to think about what he is actually saying in order not to contradict himself:

“I don’t want to comment on that. But the answer is no. But I don’t want to comment on that.”

And, yes, Donald Trump said that.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nald-trump
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Re: Re:

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:30 pm

curt wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:10 pm
sue d. wrote:
Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:11 pm
hehehe.... you're SO bad, Brent! :P
Well, to put things into perspective, there is another guy who, perhaps, should say "umm..." once in a while in order to allow himself to think about what he is actually saying in order not to contradict himself:

“I don’t want to comment on that. But the answer is no. But I don’t want to comment on that.”

And, yes, Donald Trump said that.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nald-trump
I'm terrible, but can I just say I feel him. I do the same dang thing. Donald Trump I mean.
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Re: Re:

Post by curt » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:01 pm

Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:30 pm
curt wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:10 pm
sue d. wrote:
Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:11 pm
hehehe.... you're SO bad, Brent! :P
Well, to put things into perspective, there is another guy who, perhaps, should say "umm..." once in a while in order to allow himself to think about what he is actually saying in order not to contradict himself:

“I don’t want to comment on that. But the answer is no. But I don’t want to comment on that.”

And, yes, Donald Trump said that.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nald-trump
I'm terrible, but can I just say I feel him. I do the same dang thing. Donald Trump I mean.
If you actually did the same thing, you would have written something along the lines of:

"I'm terrible, but can I just say I feel him but I don't do the same thing. I do the same dang thing. Donald Trump I mean. I am not talking about Trump."
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Re: Re:

Post by Diehardpetrafan:) » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:04 pm

curt wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:01 pm
Diehardpetrafan:) wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:30 pm
curt wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:10 pm
sue d. wrote:
Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:11 pm
hehehe.... you're SO bad, Brent! :P
Well, to put things into perspective, there is another guy who, perhaps, should say "umm..." once in a while in order to allow himself to think about what he is actually saying in order not to contradict himself:

“I don’t want to comment on that. But the answer is no. But I don’t want to comment on that.”

And, yes, Donald Trump said that.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nald-trump
I'm terrible, but can I just say I feel him. I do the same dang thing. Donald Trump I mean.
If you actually did the same thing, you would have written something along the lines of:

"I'm terrible, but can I just say I feel him but I don't do the same thing. I do the same dang thing. Donald Trump I mean. I am not talking about Trump."
:lol: And contradict myself? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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