Shake?

[Jonathan]

is this why dvds are coming out with a digital copy of the dvd in the same package now days?

Yeah. Lame. In the case of the one I received as a gift, I still had to pay an extra $2.99 for the digital copy. No thanks anyway.

[separateunion]

I like how someone can say something that we do not like, and it be comes an anti-christ-like statement. Very mature of you guys.

If you are not listening to be blessed, and I don't mean that in some weird spiritual way, then why do you listen? Blessed means to benefit. So, what is the purpose of listening then?

Pastors steal sermons, re-write other peoples books and research projects, Christians steal music, bands steal ideas.....but we all want God's best and him to use us. How can we feel good about ourselves? If our conscience doesn't move us, then we had better check ourselves.

Checking dictionary.com, I see no definition for "blessed" that says "to benefit". Try again.

What does listening to music have anything to do with "wanting God's best and him to use us"? My conscience doesn't "move" me because I believe it is a crime for the music industry to charge what it does for CDs, especially when the artist is making next to nothing on the sale.

I guarantee you many artists have made more money off of me through downloads than they would have if I'd bought one CD. Why? Because I can listen to enough that I want to support the band by buying from their website or their booth at a concert, neither of which I would have gone to had I not had the opportunity to listen to their music.

If downloading music was truly illegal, the government would have done something about it a long time ago. If artists really cared about "art", they wouldn't complain that people download their music. Yes, it's a business too, but I don't see that many artists suffering purely because they don't make enough sales due to downloads.

[sue d.]

If artists really cared about "art", they wouldn't complain that people download their music.

Hence the term 'Starving Artist.'

Using that same logic: If pastors really cared about spreading the Gospel, then they shouldn't accept a paycheck from their church either. They should just preach for the joy of it.

Come on. Everyone has to make a living.

If downloading music was truly illegal, the government would have done something about it a long time ago.

They did. Napster. But the problem is so wide-spread on the internet that it's nearly impossible to regulate.

[separateunion]

If artists really cared about "art", they wouldn't complain that people download their music.

Hence the term 'Starving Artist.'

Using that same logic: If pastors really cared about spreading the Gospel, then they shouldn't accept a paycheck from their church either. They should just preach for the joy of it.

Come on. Everyone has to make a living.

I addressed that already. You of all people should know that money is made on concerts, not on album sales. We're not talking about artists who paint a picture or create a sculpture that's a one time deal.

If downloading music was truly illegal, the government would have done something about it a long time ago.

They did. Napster. But the problem is so wide-spread on the internet that it's nearly impossible to regulate.

That was the RIAA and Napster still exists. The RIAA has flexed its muscle (or whatever you would call it) a few times, but nothing has really ever come of it. Mostly just trying to get big headlines to scare people into not downloading music.

[sue d.]

You of all people should know that money is made on concerts, not on album sales. We're not talking about artists who paint a picture or create a sculpture that's a one time deal.

It depends on who you're referring to when you talk about money being made.

The recording artist doesn't make squat from CD sales, correct. But if you're the songwriter, or singer/songwriter - you bet your money comes in from album sales. You get your percentage off of each sale. It's all reported, tracked and royalties are paid out.

And if you're the record label - yes again, you make money from sales.

[brent]

You look up blessing and tell me that a blessing is not a benefit.

From Dictionary.com (FACE!)

bless⋅ing [bles-ing] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the act or words of a person who blesses.
2. a special favor, mercy, or benefit: the blessings of liberty.
3. a favor or gift bestowed by God, thereby bringing happiness.
4. the invoking of God's favor upon a person: The son was denied his father's blessing.
5. praise; devotion; worship, esp. grace said before a meal: The children took turns reciting the blessing.
6. approval or good wishes: The proposed law had the blessing of the governor.

The point remains!!!!

The facts are that people DO make money selling CDs. I did. PDC does. Other bands do. I know of some indies that made $270k selling CDs. They could never make that playing gigs.

Gigs are fine and can pay, if you are a big draw. Ask Sue if John is rolling in the cash right now. Ask the new bands that you hear on radio if they are.

The point is that the artists are providing a product for sale. It is no more legal to take a painting to Kinkos and copy it, sell it or hand it out for free than it is to re-distribute music. Music costs money to make. It costs money to rent the studio, buy instruments, rent musicians, write, produce, duplicate, distribute, track, do accounting, etc, etc. People don't do it for the heck of it so that they can lose money.

[petrafreak2009]

Hey brent, I've been meaning to ask you something, and I'll probably copy and paste this to a pm to you:


What would you suggest for a person to study if they wanted to either produce albums or engineer them?

[brent]

Well, there are a couple of books that would be good primers, ones that all of the recording courses utilize.

The Sound Recording Handbook is the bible.

Here are some links to others via www.recording.org

http://recording.org/books/

Above all, I would be a buddy to a busy, successful recording engineer in your area, and be a fly on the wall...observing the process. You have to know the gear, the physics and the art of it. But more than that you must know the process and "how to make a record". THIS is what escapes people.

There is no money in it anymore, otherwise I would recommend some great programs. But there are a crap load of talented kids coming out with no place to go to work. Why? Music is free now and people can't seem to operate and staff recording studios when the artists have no money to sustain them. This is why nearly all of the legendary facilities are closing or have closed.

[p-freak]

I like how someone can say something that we do not like, and it be comes an anti-christ-like statement. Very mature of you guys.

If you are not listening to be blessed, and I don't mean that in some weird spiritual way, then why do you listen? Blessed means to benefit. So, what is the purpose of listening then?

Pastors steal sermons, re-write other peoples books and research projects, Christians steal music, bands steal ideas.....but we all want God's best and him to use us. How can we feel good about ourselves? If our conscience doesn't move us, then we had better check ourselves.

It is stupid to equate having God's word illegally in some foreign country with stealing music that IS AVAILABLE IN OUR MARKET WHERE WE LIVE FOR CASH. You would make a great independent fundamental baptist nutjob preacher. This is what they do. Come on.

Even if the law says to steal, just as it gives a license for females to murder babies, doesn't mean that believers should.

Brent, thank you again for judging me.

The point I was trying to make is that you are not the one to decide whether something is illegal/criminal/sinful or not. Of course you're entitled to your own opinion. But just by expressing it very strongly, doesn't mean that people have to agree with you. You accuse me of immaturity. You're doing exactly the same thing that you're accusing me of. You're measuring the entire world by your own opinion and if I don't agree, I would be a great nutjob preacher. Who's preaching here?

I respect the laws of my country and I support lots of artists by buying their music. I am convinced that lots of artists whose entire catalogue is long out of print would be very pleased that their music can be listened to by a new generation. If I would make an album right now and I would hear of someone who, in 10-20 years time, would download it for free and would enjoy it, the only thing I would do is rejoice!

I am perfectly alright with my conscience, having some albums that are long out of print and some albums that are still available in digital format on my computer without ever having paid for them. And I believe I'm not committing a crime (which I can prove) or a sin (which I cannot prove). If you do believe I'm committing a crime, have a look into Dutch copyright laws. And if you do believe I'm committing a sin: Thanks for warning me, but please do not judge me. Even though you might believe your opinion is superior, please do not express it like that.

[brent]

I like how someone can say something that we do not like, and it be comes an anti-christ-like statement. Very mature of you guys.

If you are not listening to be blessed, and I don't mean that in some weird spiritual way, then why do you listen? Blessed means to benefit. So, what is the purpose of listening then?

Pastors steal sermons, re-write other peoples books and research projects, Christians steal music, bands steal ideas.....but we all want God's best and him to use us. How can we feel good about ourselves? If our conscience doesn't move us, then we had better check ourselves.

It is stupid to equate having God's word illegally in some foreign country with stealing music that IS AVAILABLE IN OUR MARKET WHERE WE LIVE FOR CASH. You would make a great independent fundamental baptist nutjob preacher. This is what they do. Come on.

Even if the law says to steal, just as it gives a license for females to murder babies, doesn't mean that believers should.

Brent, thank you again for judging me.

The point I was trying to make is that you are not the one to decide whether something is illegal/criminal/sinful or not. Of course you're entitled to your own opinion. But just by expressing it very strongly, doesn't mean that people have to agree with you. You accuse me of immaturity. You're doing exactly the same thing that you're accusing me of. You're measuring the entire world by your own opinion and if I don't agree, I would be a great nutjob preacher. Who's preaching here?

I respect the laws of my country and I support lots of artists by buying their music. I am convinced that lots of artists whose entire catalogue is long out of print would be very pleased that their music can be listened to by a new generation. If I would make an album right now and I would hear of someone who, in 10-20 years time, would download it for free and would enjoy it, the only thing I would do is rejoice!

I am perfectly alright with my conscience, having some albums that are long out of print and some albums that are still available in digital format on my computer without ever having paid for them. And I believe I'm not committing a crime (which I can prove) or a sin (which I cannot prove). If you do believe I'm committing a crime, have a look into Dutch copyright laws. And if you do believe I'm committing a sin: Thanks for warning me, but please do not judge me. Even though you might believe your opinion is superior, please do not express it like that.

Dude. I didn't judge you. I was talking generically about ChristianS as a whole and people (plural) and this insane mindset that owning free music that was not intended to be free by the artist is ok. I have nothing more to say about it. The bible says it all. Thou shalt not steal. The artists consider you having something of theirs without them getting money from you stealing.

If Obama says stealing is legal in the USA, I am still going to follow the bible. Broad ambiguous laws are just that. That doesn't make them moral. So you have to decide to be one of those guys that has relative morality or not. Because that is what you have. That's your call. That's fine.

I understand the musician's situation first and second hand, so I support the musicans. I buy product. I go to shows when I can. They are like anyone else. When they stop seeing dollars, they stop making music.

[separateunion]

Are you really "stealing" in the Biblical sense when you are downloading music? That'd be a tough sell for me. It's not like I'm walking into someone's house and stealing the only copy of a Monet painting they own.

[brent]

Are you really "stealing" in the Biblical sense when you are downloading music? That'd be a tough sell for me. It's not like I'm walking into someone's house and stealing the only copy of a Monet painting they own.

So stealing is relative? You have to physically go somewhere and steal something of major value? Classic!

Well, I guess people that hack into a bank computer and steal one penny from every person are not guilty. They didn't go into the bank with a gun and they only got one penny each.

Look, if you HAVE the music, and you LISTEN to the music, and you dfid not PAY for the music, you stole it.

Why do artists sell thier albums to labels?
Why do labels loan money to the artists?
Why do the labels contract with distributors and place product in stores?
Why do stores charge more than the cost of pressing the CD, their overhead, etc?
THEY NEED TO GET PAID FOR THEIR WORK!

If an artist willingly says to take the music for free, the it is not stealing. If the music for sale on legit sites, and you are downloading from torrents, P2P unsupported, etc type networks, then you ARE stealing.

Ask yourself how listening to the music for free benefits the artist. Ask yourself how free downloads pay for his/her time to be creative and produce the thing you want. Ask yourself, would Jesus take from one of his own?

[r_karlsson22]

I guess that some of you guys use Spotify. There you can listen to almost all Petra songs for example for "free" (just some short commercial break every tenth song you play...or pay a few dollars a month with no commercials). And it's legal.

I already own every single one of Petra's albums, but it's a great thing that alot of more people have a chance to listen.

Nowadays, artists earn money at concerts and to sell t-shirts instead of selling cd's.

[brent]

I guess that some of you guys use Spotify. There you can listen to almost all Petra songs for example for "free" (just some short commercial break every tenth song you play...or pay a few dollars a month with no commercials). And it's legal.

I already own every single one of Petra's albums, but it's a great thing that alot of more people have a chance to listen.

Nowadays, artists earn money at concerts and to sell t-shirts instead of selling cd's.

One hit single, Gold sales in the US = 500,000 x 3.86 = 1,930,000

It takes a bunch of $2.5k gigs to make that.

[Tutor_23]

I quickly found 4 or 5 copies of Shake for < $7.00 at Amazon.com
Good luck!
Andy from Indiana