The Petra Zone

Jonathan wrote:"Out of Print" means fair game on torrent sites.

Sorry I missed this. That would still be illegal no matter if it is in print or not. The law is worded so that you are not an owner of the music itself. The CD or download is merely a license to use it for your purposes. You can not redistibute it for free or for charge. Only the people who own the music's rights can do this legally.

In the Netherlands there's this weird bit in the law about downloading stuff. I am allowed to have a (digital) copy of anything published for my own use. So I'm perfectly okay if I download anything off the Internet. But I am not allowed to distribute copyright material if I don't hold the rights. So everyone uploading music for distribution is doing something illegal (committing a crime against copyright laws), but everyone downloading copyright material for their own use is doing something perfectly legal...

Is that the same in the US?

p-freak wrote:In the Netherlands there's this weird bit in the law about downloading stuff. I am allowed to have a (digital) copy of anything published for my own use. So I'm perfectly okay if I download anything off the Internet. But I am not allowed to distribute copyright material if I don't hold the rights. So everyone uploading music for distribution is doing something illegal (committing a crime against copyright laws), but everyone downloading copyright material for their own use is doing something perfectly legal...

Is that the same in the US?

Acquiring it by downloading would technically be illegal, then. You're fine if you rip your own CDs, but downloading from a site that distributes the files is illegal.

I've been downloading music that I have in CD form but am not able to rip. I wonder if that would be considered illegal.

No, it would not technically be illegal.

The weird bit in this case is that it is legal to download copyright material, even though it's illegal to upload it. So I'm am not acting illegally by making the most of someone who ís acting illegally. It's weird...

(It's the same with softdrugs: coffeeshops (which is the place where people buy softdrugs and not coffee) can sell limited amounts of marihuana but they cannot legally get it anywhere; still the government allows this.)

I don't think it is quite that way here in the U.S. A good example is an aracde game machine, such as pac-man. It is legal for me to own a computer emulation of that game, if I own the physical game machine, or the chipsets from the machine. If I don't own the physical machine, I can certainly obtain the emulated game for free, but it is not legal for me to do so. To legally have the game on my computer, I would have to purchase a commercial software release of the game.
I believe music is the same way. If I buy the CD, I can have a digital copy for my own use on my computer, IPod, etc., but I can't distribute or sell the copy. If I don't already own the music, the only way for me to legally get a digital copy of it is to buy the CD and rip it, or buy the music from a digital download service like ITunes. It's not legal to download music for free just because someone has made it available. How a website like playlist.com can even exist is beyond me.

GMan

p-freak wrote:In the Netherlands there's this weird bit in the law about downloading stuff. I am allowed to have a (digital) copy of anything published for my own use. So I'm perfectly okay if I download anything off the Internet. But I am not allowed to distribute copyright material if I don't hold the rights. So everyone uploading music for distribution is doing something illegal (committing a crime against copyright laws), but everyone downloading copyright material for their own use is doing something perfectly legal...

Is that the same in the US?

I think the law in the Netherlands is the same as in the US. YOU can make a digital copy of what YOU own. But downloading unauthorized re-distributed copies is illegal. If you own a copy already, you do not get to download a second from an illegal source.

The US law says that only the holder of the rights to the work may decide it's fate. It may be shelved, it may be sold. That's their call. If something is out of print by choice, that is the owners free will choice to make.

No, the law in the Netherlands is exactly as I stated it. I know cause I wanted to find out if it was legal to have digital copies of music you don't own. I know it sounds weird, but it is a maze in the law.

I understand the nuance now. You are allowed to have a digital copy of whatever, even if you never purchased a hard copy, but you're not allowed to distribute it. So, you could have a digital copy of "Shake" without actually owning a physical copy, but you aren't allowed to distribute it. While someone who distributes it is acting illegally, the distributees are not doing anything illegal. Weird.

separateunion wrote:I understand the nuance now. You are allowed to have a digital copy of whatever, even if you never purchased a hard copy, but you're not allowed to distribute it. So, you could have a digital copy of "Shake" without actually owning a physical copy, but you aren't allowed to distribute it. While someone who distributes it is acting illegally, the distributees are not doing anything illegal. Weird.

Yes the whole process of this is messed up. This should be something so simple but the internet got involved about 15 years ago and really messed it up.

separateunion wrote:I understand the nuance now. You are allowed to have a digital copy of whatever, even if you never purchased a hard copy, but you're not allowed to distribute it. So, you could have a digital copy of "Shake" without actually owning a physical copy, but you aren't allowed to distribute it. While someone who distributes it is acting illegally, the distributees are not doing anything illegal. Weird.

Exactly! So I can copy every CD / DVD I borrow and it is perfectly legal for me to have tons of music on my computer / CD-Rs without ever having purchased it.

I hope every Christian with stolen music reaps what they sow. Oh wait, no need to hope. I get a kick out of Christians expecting to be blessed by something stolen.

is this why dvds are coming out with a digital copy of the dvd in the same package now days?

brent wrote:I hope every Christian with stolen music reaps what they sow. Oh wait, no need to hope. I get a kick out of Christians expecting to be blessed by something stolen.

Very christlike, Brent. Thank you for judging me. I seem to remember that Jesus said something about that once...

It is illegal in some countries to possess a Bible, so I really hope that Christians over there get blessed by something illegal.

I don't really listen to music to feel blessed, but maybe that's just me.

p-freak wrote:

brent wrote:I hope every Christian with stolen music reaps what they sow. Oh wait, no need to hope. I get a kick out of Christians expecting to be blessed by something stolen.

Very christlike, Brent. Thank you for judging me. I seem to remember that Jesus said something about that once...

It is illegal in some countries to possess a Bible, so I really hope that Christians over there get blessed by something illegal.

I like how someone can say something that we do not like, and it be comes an anti-christ-like statement. Very mature of you guys.

If you are not listening to be blessed, and I don't mean that in some weird spiritual way, then why do you listen? Blessed means to benefit. So, what is the purpose of listening then?

Pastors steal sermons, re-write other peoples books and research projects, Christians steal music, bands steal ideas.....but we all want God's best and him to use us. How can we feel good about ourselves? If our conscience doesn't move us, then we had better check ourselves.

It is stupid to equate having God's word illegally in some foreign country with stealing music that IS AVAILABLE IN OUR MARKET WHERE WE LIVE FOR CASH. You would make a great independent fundamental baptist nutjob preacher. This is what they do. Come on.

Even if the law says to steal, just as it gives a license for females to murder babies, doesn't mean that believers should.