Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by jmatd » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:49 am

The only thing thar all of the rest of the world´s Pethead would like is that any concert of the Petra 2010 lineup or the classic petra could be record... we would like that those concerts alowed to have a camera and then can share it with us via petrafiles.....

PLEASE! Take a note if any of you (all who read this post) are involved in the organization: remember us! (the rest of the world pethead who dream to be there and it will be imposible)

blessings,
JM
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by brent » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:36 pm

jmatd wrote:The only thing thar all of the rest of the world´s Pethead would like is that any concert of the Petra 2010 lineup or the classic petra could be record... we would like that those concerts alowed to have a camera and then can share it with us via petrafiles.....

PLEASE! Take a note if any of you (all who read this post) are involved in the organization: remember us! (the rest of the world pethead who dream to be there and it will be imposible)

blessings,
JM
I offered a large mobile ProTools rig for recording. Offered to capture it for free too.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by p-freak » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:34 pm

You make it sound like the offer was refused...

I really hope they will release a DVD with footage of the reunion tour: Captured in another time and a different space!
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by calicowriter » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:40 pm

p-freak wrote:You make it sound like the offer was refused...

I really hope they will release a DVD with footage of the reunion tour: Captured in another time and a different space!

OK, now will that be CIATDS or CIATADS? :lol:
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by brent » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:47 pm

p-freak wrote:You make it sound like the offer was refused...

I really hope they will release a DVD with footage of the reunion tour: Captured in another time and a different space!
Nope. The offer was made. The person said that they will keep that in mind. You know they will shoot it. This may never happen again.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by brent » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:54 pm

"I believe what I believe is what makes me what I am." - Rich Mullins

Good thing I don't live by that. The bible does not support that. We are children of God no matter what the devil cons us into thinking. The infinite God can not be reasoned by man. So our belief is ever changing, for the good and the bad. If we are what we believe, then we are in for a surprise. Rich was a new-age Charismatic Catholic beguiled by Manning, who used trickery in words to sound right, but not be right at all. That Ragamiffin Gospel book is only worthy of wiping your tushy with. It is full of wresting of scripture.

Now, before you bash and say that Rich is talking about his confession in the verse, re-read what I said. It is not what we believe that makes us, it is WHO we believe that makes us. It is not your belief that should be changing you. It should be your relationship with Christ that should be changing you. These are not one in the same. There are people that know all about God that will be denied access to Him. There will be simpletons in heaven that lived out the great command, loving God and then their neighbors as themselves, that may not have a deep understanding or comprehension of scripture and the church-ified lingo/terminology/doctrines we spew.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by calicowriter » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:20 am

Brent: I am sorry I don't have the time to answer all of your uninformed and condesending remarks, but let me try to explain what that verse means to me. I believe that what I believe (the Creed), defines who and what I am. It identifies me as a child of God, who acknowledges the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The fact that I believe should (and does) affect my actions, my world-view, the way I practice my faith, how I treat others, etc. My lifelong faith has formed me into the person I am today. The Spirit will continue to work in me in the future.

To me, it is like when James said Faith without works is dead. If we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, then the proof of this belief will be a life that is obedient to His Word, centered on Him, living for Him, and continually working for Him using the gifts He’s given to us in order to do so. This faith will also be manifested in a life that is daily being changed by the Holy Spirit so that Christ is reflected more and more in that life.

Oh, and BTW, I am Catholic.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by separateunion » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:17 am

The simple truth is, Rich Mullins was one of the few genuine CCM artists with real spiritual depth. I'm not saying I agree with everything he believed, but I'd rather listen to what he had to say concerning his relationship with God than just about any other Christian musician. What you believe DOES make you who you are. It DOES define your faith, because it's WHAT YOU BELIEVE. Christ still plays the central role in what you believe, but it is still what YOU believe. The only negative I'd have about the quote is that it seems to put the emphasis on individual faith rather than communal faith, but I'm sure that in the proper context, it doesn't say that.
It is not what we believe that makes us, it is WHO we believe that makes us. It is not your belief that should be changing you. It should be your relationship with Christ that should be changing you. These are not one in the same. There are people that know all about God that will be denied access to Him.
If they knew "all about God" then they didn't really KNOW him. I know all about Barry Sanders: height, weight, stats, awards, jersey number, etc., but I don't really KNOW him. There is a big difference.

If someone's life and actions were not formed by a relationship with Christ, they did not believe in him. If they did not believe in Christ (and taken further, Christianity), who they were was not defined by Christ. It's not WHO we believe that makes us, but WHO we believe IN. This is still what you as an individual believe, and it defines your life and actions.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by brent » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:13 pm

Sorry, I am informed about Rich. You see, I used to work for the radio station where Rich gave one of his last interviews before he was killed. He was on his way to be baptised into the Catholic church following the completion of those last shows. I have the recording of the interview.

Research Brennan Manning. He is a nut. He has confessed to making up lies about his "good works". His doctrine is full of holes. He is not a true Christian based on his own statement of faith.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by brent » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:28 pm

I am not going to get into the Catholic thing. All I will say is that Rome does not teach biblical salvation. It hasn't for a looooong time. Sacraments do not bring salvation, the church does not bring salvation, the Pope is not infallible and most certainly is not the office of God on earth in human form as they say. We answer to God and do not need any other intercessor other that Jesus the True Christ.

What I will say is that you guys missed it again and you are over thinking this. GOD, the ONE TRUTH, is true whether we believe it or not. Our belief that God is God or that Jesus is the Son of God does not substantiate the Truth. God exists and works whether or not we believe. If our belief is in God is what shapes us, we have a problem. It should be God that shapes us. Our belief is not what makes us or breaks us because that changes. This is the same problem that I have with people equating spirituality or faith with a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The two are not the same. Religion is not the same as Christianity. People can have beliefs, faith, spirituality and religion and still be lost as lost can be.

I don't doubt Rich loved God deeply. He loved God and was still misguided by Manning....so was Michael W Smith who wrote the forward to the Ragamuffin book.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by separateunion » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:38 am

I'm aware that Rich Mullins was going to be baptised Catholic, and I respect him for that. You see, I have quite a bit more experience with Catholics and the Catholic Church than you do, so while there are doctrinal issues that would prevent me from becoming a Catholic, I respect the Church much more than I do most of modern Christianity.
brent wrote:I am not going to get into the Catholic thing. All I will say is that Rome does not teach biblical salvation. It hasn't for a looooong time. Sacraments do not bring salvation, the church does not bring salvation, the Pope is not infallible and most certainly is not the office of God on earth in human form as they say. We answer to God and do not need any other intercessor other that Jesus the True Christ.
Obviously, you don't actually know what Catholics believe. The many I have talked to would vehemently deny salvation through the sacraments and the infallibility of the Pope. They also would not consider him in the "office of God on earth."
What I will say is that you guys missed it again and you are over thinking this. GOD, the ONE TRUTH, is true whether we believe it or not. Our belief that God is God or that Jesus is the Son of God does not substantiate the Truth. God exists and works whether or not we believe. If our belief is in God is what shapes us, we have a problem. It should be God that shapes us. Our belief is not what makes us or breaks us because that changes. This is the same problem that I have with people equating spirituality or faith with a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The two are not the same. Religion is not the same as Christianity. People can have beliefs, faith, spirituality and religion and still be lost as lost can be..
Yes, God does shape us, but, earthly speaking, it is our beliefs that makes us who we are. You're creating a false dichotomy on this one, and you're wrong.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by brent » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:26 pm

separateunion wrote:I'm aware that Rich Mullins was going to be baptised Catholic, and I respect him for that. You see, I have quite a bit more experience with Catholics and the Catholic Church than you do, so while there are doctrinal issues that would prevent me from becoming a Catholic, I respect the Church much more than I do most of modern Christianity.
brent wrote:I am not going to get into the Catholic thing. All I will say is that Rome does not teach biblical salvation. It hasn't for a looooong time. Sacraments do not bring salvation, the church does not bring salvation, the Pope is not infallible and most certainly is not the office of God on earth in human form as they say. We answer to God and do not need any other intercessor other that Jesus the True Christ.
Obviously, you don't actually know what Catholics believe. The many I have talked to would vehemently deny salvation through the sacraments and the infallibility of the Pope. They also would not consider him in the "office of God on earth."
What I will say is that you guys missed it again and you are over thinking this. GOD, the ONE TRUTH, is true whether we believe it or not. Our belief that God is God or that Jesus is the Son of God does not substantiate the Truth. God exists and works whether or not we believe. If our belief is in God is what shapes us, we have a problem. It should be God that shapes us. Our belief is not what makes us or breaks us because that changes. This is the same problem that I have with people equating spirituality or faith with a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The two are not the same. Religion is not the same as Christianity. People can have beliefs, faith, spirituality and religion and still be lost as lost can be..
Yes, God does shape us, but, earthly speaking, it is our beliefs that makes us who we are. You're creating a false dichotomy on this one, and you're wrong.
I have been to their classes and read their own literature. I have family that are Catholic. I DO know what I am talking about. Rich was buying into Roman Catholicism, which may be different from all of the various USA brands of Catholicism. I realize that there are many that have distanced themselves from Rome. Read your own documents from Rome about what salvation entails. I would hope you would reject it if you are a true follower of Christ and Christ alone.

I am not what I believe. I am what God says I am. I put more faith in God than myself.
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by imc » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:45 pm

brent wrote: I am not what I believe. I am what God says I am.
Those two phrases are effectively identical. There is nothing that God says about you that you can receive apart from faith/belief. Therefore what God says you are and what you believe are inextricably linked!
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by pmal » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:41 am

brent wrote:
separateunion wrote:I'm aware that Rich Mullins was going to be baptised Catholic, and I respect him for that. You see, I have quite a bit more experience with Catholics and the Catholic Church than you do, so while there are doctrinal issues that would prevent me from becoming a Catholic, I respect the Church much more than I do most of modern Christianity.
brent wrote:I am not going to get into the Catholic thing. All I will say is that Rome does not teach biblical salvation. It hasn't for a looooong time. Sacraments do not bring salvation, the church does not bring salvation, the Pope is not infallible and most certainly is not the office of God on earth in human form as they say. We answer to God and do not need any other intercessor other that Jesus the True Christ.
Obviously, you don't actually know what Catholics believe. The many I have talked to would vehemently deny salvation through the sacraments and the infallibility of the Pope. They also would not consider him in the "office of God on earth."
What I will say is that you guys missed it again and you are over thinking this. GOD, the ONE TRUTH, is true whether we believe it or not. Our belief that God is God or that Jesus is the Son of God does not substantiate the Truth. God exists and works whether or not we believe. If our belief is in God is what shapes us, we have a problem. It should be God that shapes us. Our belief is not what makes us or breaks us because that changes. This is the same problem that I have with people equating spirituality or faith with a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The two are not the same. Religion is not the same as Christianity. People can have beliefs, faith, spirituality and religion and still be lost as lost can be..
Yes, God does shape us, but, earthly speaking, it is our beliefs that makes us who we are. You're creating a false dichotomy on this one, and you're wrong.
I have been to their classes and read their own literature. I have family that are Catholic. I DO know what I am talking about. Rich was buying into Roman Catholicism, which may be different from all of the various USA brands of Catholicism. I realize that there are many that have distanced themselves from Rome. Read your own documents from Rome about what salvation entails. I would hope you would reject it if you are a true follower of Christ and Christ alone.

I am not what I believe. I am what God says I am. I put more faith in God than myself.
Brent is absolutely correct about Roman Catholocism and those beliefs. I'm happy that the Catholics some know don't believe those things and I don't know about Rich but he's right about what true Roman Catholocism teaches and I don't know of any other Catholic denominations ...
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Re: Petra @ HeavenFest - 7/31/2010

Post by calicowriter » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:25 am

imc wrote:Brent is absolutely correct about Roman Catholocism and those beliefs.
Contrary to what his signature implies, Brent is not always right.

Food for thought: Who was it that in essence created the Bible (that is, collected the writings together and decided what made the cut and what did not)? Oh, I believe that would be the Catholic Church, which like the Eastern Orthodox Church traces its roots directly to the apostles.

However, I am not going to try to puff myself up spouting my credentials, or the amount of studying I have done, or my life experiences in several churches. I am comfortable in what I believe and why; I am also comfortable with letting God sort it all out in the end.
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