I`m sad

[LexingtonPethead]

because they don't want to see happen to America what is happening in other countries like Canada.

Say what you want, but I would still rather live in Canada than in the US. Have you ever been to Canada Lex?

Yes, but not since I was a kid. Sure, I wouldn't mind coming up for a fishing trip, sight-seeing trip, etc..., but I sure wouldn't want to live there. Your healthcare system is reason enough to stay in the US.

I'm not surprised that you say that you want to live in Canada. A lot of liberals here in the US say the same thing but we can never convince them to move.

[LexingtonPethead]

RJ, I didn't call you a liberal. But if you're not a liberal, then maybe it's just that they just have a lot in common with you. Examples: your views on the Iraq war, anti-Americanism, big government, socialized medicine, defending and protecting freedom, and more recently your views regarding prayer in school and the relationship between church and state. You gotta admit, on these issues the lines have been blurry.

No one is questioning your salvation, least of all me. I know you love God and serve Him. At the end of the day, it is our relationship with Christ that allows us to see beyond the issues we debate on the zone. Like I said before, we might not agree on politics, but I'd hang out with you anytime at a Petra concert!

That said, I don't mind telling you that if you still think the Iraq war was about oil, then you're not thinking with a clear mind. That claim is completely baseless and unworthy of debate. If I were you, I would edit that out of your last post.

If you're still not clear about the way it is about illegal Mexican workers in the US, then I suggest re-reading Enosh's posts. No one explains it better than he does.

[gman]

Allow me to stick up for myself, since I can do it best.
I said in an earlier post that getting healthcare was a right. I never said free healthcare. I was just making the point that everyone should be able to get treatment of some sort for whatever is wrong with them, and that for the most part, anyone in this country can get treatment. Paying for the treatment is a different story. I don't think health insurance is a right, and I don't think it should be given free to those who can't afford insurance, or can't afford to pay the bills. I believe we need to help those people in the short term with assistance and ways to pay for the insurance other people are paying for, with the understanding that eventually they will have to pay what everyone else pays. In other words, help them to get out of their situation and make something of themselves. So they can become part of the hard working class of people who can afford to pay for their healthcare and insurance, instead of encouraging them to stay poor by handing out freebies.
Health insurance is not a right, it is earned through hard work. However, no one who is ill should be denied the necessary treatment to make them well.
Capeche?

A car and the internet are not a neccessity. I can still live and function without them. However, if my body is screwed up and I can't get treatment I might be dead. Shame on any country that would allow someone to die because they knew that person couldn't afford the treatment.

[brent]

Allow me to stick up for myself, since I can do it best.
I said in an earlier post that getting healthcare was a right. I never said free healthcare. I was just making the point that everyone should be able to get treatment of some sort for whatever is wrong with them, and that for the most part, anyone in this country can get treatment. Paying for the treatment is a different story. I don't think health insurance is a right, and I don't think it should be given free to those who can't afford insurance, or can't afford to pay the bills. I believe we need to help those people in the short term with assistance and ways to pay for the insurance other people are paying for, with the understanding that eventually they will have to pay what everyone else pays. In other words, help them to get out of their situation and make something of themselves. So they can become part of the hard working class of people who can afford to pay for their healthcare and insurance, instead of encouraging them to stay poor by handing out freebies.
Health insurance is not a right, it is earned through hard work. However, no one who is ill should be denied the necessary treatment to make them well.
Capeche?

A car and the internet are not a neccessity. I can still live and function without them. However, if my body is screwed up and I can't get treatment I might be dead. Shame on any country that would allow someone to die because they knew thst person couldn't afford the treatment.

Amen.

[LexingtonPethead]

Healthcare is not a right, and it should not be. However, there are many people treated everyday by hospitals who will never pay their medical bills (legally, I doubt that any hospital can refuse to treat someone with a life-threatening condition). Many of these bills eventually get written-off after so many years. Unpaid medical bills are not only a loss of revenue for hospitals and medical practitioners, they also contribute to bad credit ratings for the non-payers. This goes on all the time. Just ask any doctor about the amount of uncollectable money they have sitting out there if you don't believe it.

I think the people who go undone are the ones who don't have insurance, but they also do not want to create bills they can't pay, so they decide on their own to forego treatment. I know because I was in this category several years ago.

I realize that not every hospital reacts the same way to the uninsured / under-insured. Some are more strict than others. Private hospitals are more strict about payment. But I think if someone really needs medical attention, they will get it whether they can pay immediately or not.

[epdc]

Let`s face it well have different perspectives (I HATE some, I`m agree with others but oh well), let`s all be happy please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gman]

I say getting medical treatment for a problem is a right. That's the bottom line and I'm sticking to it. It shouldn't be reserved for only those who are able to pay out of pocket, or have insurance to cover it. I'm not saying it should be free either. I'm not suggesting it be written off or that people be given free insurance. They need to learn responsibility and better themselves so they can afford to take care of themselves. There needs to be a system in place to help them better themselves and help them pay their bills. Something like ways for them to earn credits that would reduce what they owe.
this would not be a move in the direction of liberalism, but rather a major change and overhaul moving toward real conservative values. Responsibility, and, doing better because you have the God given ability to do so.

[LexingtonPethead]

Liberal theology is soul destroying, liberal politics is another matter. There's a big difference.

Actually, liberal theology and liberal politics work in tandem with each other. People who are liberal politically are almost always liberal theologically. They really have to be in order to reconcile their liberal viewpoints with their faith. Good examples are homosexuality/gay rights, abortion, prayer in schools, the liberal agenda to de-Christianize our national emblems, anthems and currency, etc... You cannot be an evangelical conservative Christian and embrace the liberal side of those issues. That's why I say liberal politics almost always equals liberal faith. Otherwise a person's faith is not consistent with their political views and you have to wonder if there's a light on upstairs.

[epdc]

you do understand what I`m saying right?

If that law stays illegal people won`t be receive medical treament even if it`s an emergency, they won`t get help even from a county hospital.

I understand that insurances are something else, some works give insurance some jobs does`t. but I mean, let`s see if we are seeing the same thing: here in M�xico are certain hospitals that are private, others are for federal workers and others for state workers and others are for everyone, ok?, now, I don`t know if it`s the same over there but for what this law says the illegal people won`t be able to receive medical treatment even for the last kind of hospital I just mentioned (the hospital that is for everyone ya know).

That`s what is freaking me out. I don`t say that emplyers have to give insurance to their workers but workers have as humans deserve the right to go to a county hospital, did I explain myself?. Thta`s what is freaking me out.

[brent]

In the US, if you are dying, or in a critical condition, you will be helped.

The issue is still a mindset of gimmee, gimmee.

Why should a doctor pay hundreds of thousands to go to school, work for free basically while interning, endanger his own health and family life by exposing himself to people and situations, and then have to provide services for free? How will the hospitals pay insurance and operating expenses if they cannot collect?

God says that we should not muzzle the ox. Don't starve the one that provides for you. It also says to owe nothing to any man. It also says that we should not steal.

Since people in the US, including illegals, use the emergency rooms at hospitals for health care, the hospitals do not get paid. They are out drugs, time, resources, etc. That is wrong.

Re: Canada. Canada needs the US more than we need it, and I think that is what has so many people up there bent. You guys don't like our president, and that's ok. Some people here don't like him either. I didn't like Clinton (adulterer/moron), Carter (unorganized liberal), Ford (clumsey-didn't do anything), Nixon (got caught being a ploitician), and that's as far back as I am going.

The war is not about oil. That is an uneducated statement. Did you know that 75% of the oil that the US consumes does not even come from there directly? Do you know what that crude oil is used for? Mostly manufacturing by-products. It is not the grade that is used for transportation fuels. This has us Americans torqued, because every time a fire cracker pops over there, the resellers jack with our gas prices. The two are NOT related. California really gets screwed. They have the most and pay the most.

It is about having enough of this terrorism crap. What you guys up there don't know is that the Oklahoma City bombing, the first couple of World Trade Center incidents, 9/11, the warship attack, the numerous kidnappings, etc are connected. Clinton let all of the others go unpunished. He even had some of the criminals in the Whitehouse. We aren't taking it anymore. Come mess with us, your out.

We are not perfect. People make mistakes. I have friends over in Iraq. I work with people that have a brother (Gen. Mancino) and a daughter (Priv. J. Ross). They have both stated that what you see on the liberal media (that would include all of Canada's news outlets, CNN, MSNBC, etc) is all wrong. The stuff that they show is sometimes glamorized, or lies completely. People having babies over there are naming their kids Bush! They love it. It is only the criminals/terrorists that do not.

Don't think for a moment that the US wouldn't help Canada fight for it's existance. We help all over the globe. We have troops in many countries that can't do for themselves. We lend more and forgive more debt than all nations of the earth combined. People do not like us until they need in our pockets, or need defense.

[separateunion]

Your government got half your country by wiping out the Red man and taking his land and the other half from going to War with Mexico and taking their land. Yeah it's worked for you. Bet you don't see that on Fox.

You know, who really cares? Mexicans have their land (more than they can inhabit), and the indians have reservations and have adapted very well to civilization over the years.

Your point was______?

I don't believe this quote was in reply to anything you posted Massa Lex. So why don't you hurry along or you'll be late for the cross burning.

I know I'm a little late on this, but ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated on this board.

On a related note, do we have any forum rules? If not, I suggest we create some. We need grounds to stand on if we do end up banning someone.

[Shell]

I think it's basically common sense...If it's better left unsaid, don't post it. And it's unnecessary to insult each other.

I said something about that too, as everybody probably knew I would.

[brent]

First, Canada was established the same way. French traders came into what would later be America via Canada. French deviant sailors killed many tribes completely off. This is historical fact. Their ships and remnants are documented in and around the Canadian coastline and in the gulf via the Mississippi. Many Indian writings confirm the wars.

So, no country is without bloodshed, except France. They just lost every battle that they have been involved in. Sorry, couldn't resist. Sometimes things need to happen. Israel took land by battle. They took THEIR PROMISED land by battle. God doesn't give you something. You earn what he promises. It is all over scripture. Any promise requires faith in actions to get the result. They slaughtered children, mothers, livestock, burned their posessions, etc. It wasn't nice and churchy-lets-love-one-another-there. God himself killed the homosexuals at Sodom and Gamora. Archeologists have found holes burned into rock and rock infested hills over there, where burning sulfer stones rained out of the sky. That doesn't sound nice. God drowned the whole freakin' earth. That wasn't nic either.

If you study the true US history as originally written, not the politically correct where white man is an immoral brute, you will learn that the original settlers, missionaries, traders had good relationships with the native American Indians. That was the intent. Had it not been for us settling here, many Indians would have gone to hell without the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Yes, later our ancestors did not handle things correctly. I say our, but I have a fraction of Indian blood in me too. The indians are well compensated for even to this day, as are relatives of Black slaves which were adopted into Indian tribes, because they owned them as well.

If you drive up into northern CA, you will see little Casino's. Around these casino's are plots of land. Each and every Indian family gets a plot. They each take home a million US dollars per year, and get it tax free. They are not really bound by the law of the US government. They can drink it away in a mobile home, or build a small mansion. You can see them both side by side. There are many states where they control the gambling, oh I am sorry "gaming" industry.

It is insane. I do not expect, nor do I receive compensation for something done to an unknown relative 200 years ago. But, in this world of entitlement, many do. I have distant family that live in a near free house, with near free utilities. They have free health care at the Indian hospital. They are not Indian by blood, but married into it, had kids, so they are in. It makes me sick. I have asked them what did the white man do to you in YOUR life?

I wish that I could ask these beggers to look around at all of the people that came here with absolutely nothing. They about lost it all, and worked hard. They made a business or a ministry into a huge success! That is how it is done, with work, not a hand-out.

This is what makes me mad about ANY race, including my own, that says that they deserve something based on the errors of others in previous generations. In God's Word, it is asked: Do your fathers bite a sour grape and you taste it in your mouth? No! We do not receive the curse of our fathers. Nor whould we pay the price for our father's sin. Every generation has a fresh start. That's liberating to me brother!

We pave roads, build hospitals, schools, colleges, sports arenas, radio, TV, airports, airplanes, buses, trains, automobiles, etc., built this country, helped win the world wars, loan the world money......Come on. Where does it end? When can we say that the debt was paid in full? If we had not fought WWII, the native Americans would be extinct or speaking German, because Hitler did not like any color of skin darker than a alabaster white babies patootie.

I hope that nobody is offended. I am not trying to be hostile. I just wish that people could get to the facts, and stop relying on the BS on the media. All of our countries have been owned and operated by worldly people. None are without spot, because the humans running the show are spotty. All have sin and come short. So while you guys blast the US, remember Israel. They doubted, sinned, killed the saviour of the world, and God still uses them as the focal point for time as the center of the prophetic universe. We too have to fight wars for reasons unknown, that are part of a plan. The plan is justifiable.

There are biblical reasons for going into battle. Our reasons line up. If they didn't, every major ministry would have beaten a path to the White House.

[Shell]

That's a good one Brent, and it does make sense. I said something along the lines of all that land takeover stuff existing long before the U.S. did.

[epdc]

one thing is not being agree with a current situation right now (like thse 200 law) and another is to attack each other`s country history.

As Brent said, we all have bloody histories in our countries (gosh M�xico has really bad parts of history that I`m not proud about) though if someone would tell me stuff about that I wouldn`t care because I didn`t live in those years and I think americans here should do the same.

You don`t have anything to feel offend about if someone attacks your history, is past. There`s nothing wrong in make comments either, as long nobody tries to hurt someon� else`s feelings.

remember that we are mad and we are not agree with BUSH, because personally I love you all and I know the rest of canadians here love the american petheads and vice versa. No one has to feel offend we are talking about governments decisions not about our families :p and I think is stupid people take it personal.


David: that pic is better! you look way more slender and the baby makes when don`t see how ugly you are (HAHAHAHAHAH Just kidding living Ken), Ashley makes you have a "paternal light" or a "father light" around you lol that makes you look cute because a pic of you alone sigh, it changes everythingHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. just kidding.