SB 1070

[epdc]

I dont know if being heartbroken or angry.... I would like to hear your thoughts as americans about this new law.

I have heard many types of stupid comments, like "if they wanna be here, they should make it legal", well I have news for you: it is not that simple being legal. When I got my visa to just be a tourist (not to live in the states just a visa to visit) they asked me for tons of papers!!! and everytime I have crossed the boarder, legally, with my visa, they ask me tons of questions, thanks God they have left me pass, because if they dont like your answers, even though you have a visa, they wont let you pass....

It breaks my heart to see men like Arpaio treating mexicans like animals, it is incredible to me that this man feels superior just because his skin is lighter and he speaks english , his last name is not even american, who knows where does his last name comes from.

Have you read the news lately? Arizona is going to bankrupt because of all the "illegal" that have been sent to Mexico, businesses are being closed and stuff....

Why people cant understand that the USA was built with inmigrants? I have heard ameericans say that illegals are a burden to your country, THATS BULLSCHLITT OK? all the illegal that go there go TO WORK OK? we dont go to be supported for free, we wanna work our A***ES OFF to support our families that stayed in Mexico (because the president we have right now, Felipe Calderon, is not helping at all to open more job opportunities in our homeland). We dont wanna cause problems, we just wanna work. Illegal inmigrants are a part of america`s economy, not a burden.

And lets be real: hispanics do jobs many americans wont wanna do, so what is the problem then?

I`m sorry if anyone here feels offended but as a Mexican it hurts me to see that there are no inmigration laws because of racism, it is easier to treat us like garbage.....

I would like to hear your thoughts guys, since you are the ones that live over there.

[Shell]

Okay, Elo, you know I love you, and you have a right to your opinion. I don’t doubt that Mexicans are decent people who just want to work to provide for their families. My own sister-in-law is from Guatemala for Heaven’s sake.

I agree with the idea America is made up of immigrants. My own family came from Nova Scotia a number of generations ago. But these people were detained at Ellis Island and were documented, and they paid taxes when they got jobs. Many of them had very rough times also. Mexicans certainly aren’t the only ones who have had to deal with bigotry and unfairness. (I will add a disclaimer here that although I'm not the leading expert on immigration, I have done some research; I did some lesson plans on immigration for some of my classes. I do know what I'm talking about).

My question is, why exactly is it that the United States is expected to support people (any people, I’m not pinpointing anyone in particular) who aren’t citizens and don’t pay taxes or pay into social security? I certainly don’t see other countries lining up to do that. My response is, when other countries are doing what they expect of the U.S., maybe that will be the time for us to open our borders to anyone who wants to come in, no questions asked. And don’t Americans traveling have to have passports or visas and fill out paperwork also? It seems to me governments of other countries need to do something to help their people.

I’m not saying our government is perfect or that I agree with every law they pass, far from it. I just have a problem with how the United States seems to be expected to do what nobody else seems to be doing.

[zak89]

I`m sorry if anyone here feels offended but as a Mexican it hurts me to see that there are no inmigration laws because of racism, it is easier to treat us like garbage.....

I don't know where you get your news, but if you truly believe that the reason for the immigration mess in the USA (it is a mess, to be sure) is *racism*, you've been greatly misinformed. It's amazing how 'racism' is thrown around so loosely in public discourse these days - it's sad, TBH. It seems that when somebody is losing in public dialog, they simply have to 'call them [the other side] racists' and everything else is disregarded.

[epdc]

Ok Zak, then Im ignorant, please explain me why then there hasnt been made any arrangements, or laws about legalizing immigrants? I dont know the word in english, "reform"?, considering illegal immigration is one of the BIGGEST problems in the USA, why the USA hasn´t work on new laws or reforms about it? This problem has decades, why no president has figured out how to solve it, besides , of course, kicking the immigrants out?. And I dont mention racism because I´m losing my dialogue, it is what it is, there is no interest in solving this problem. Unless you answer my question that´s the only explanation.

Shell, I have no doubt your family entered to the stated legally, but as you said, that was decades ago, now, trust me, now it is IMPOSIBBLE to get a permission to work on the states, they wont allow you to get a permission if there´s the tiniest suspicion that you intend to work over there. It is impossible.

If an illegal immigrant says openly "I´m illegal, I want to get a permission to stay here so I start paying taxes, social security", the immigration office wont listen, they will inmediately take that person in prison and out of the country. So that´s why these people dont pay taxes or social security, if they would try, they would be send inmediately to their homelands, so there´s no choice but to hide.

I´m not saying the USA let you pass and no questions asked, I mean, there´s gotta be a way, like the person has to present all his/her personal info, fingerprints, to put all her/his data before entering the country. Not just the USA but all countries should do that, right now I´m pointing the USA because the Arizona law is right by my house (I live close to the boarder).

[Shell]

Okay, admittedly I'm not an expert on immigration law. Most of the research I did for school focused on immigration from 1881 to 1920, and I focused on Italian and Eastern European immigration primarily because those were the areas most of the immigrants came from at that time, but also because it's such a broad topic and I had to narrow it down some. I realize things have changed since then; I don't really know all that is involved in getting a work or student visa or what exactly the process is for someone who wants to move here legally. But like Zak said, it's very convenient to scream, "racist!" when in fact it's a much broader issue. That is far from being all there is to it.

It's a complicated issue and there are no easy answers. You didn't answer my question about why the governments of other countries aren't helping their people either, by the way.

[corolla1]

First off while it is true that America was built off immigrants, the majority of them played by the rules. God expects us to follow the laws of the land (as long as the laws don't violate scripture)and so any person regardless of race who breaks the laws of another country not only violate that nation's laws but violates God's laws as well. When one comes into this country illegally, they break God's laws whether well intentioned or not. Whether you realize it or not, our immigration laws are quite lax compared to other countries and should be much stricter. If I came into your country illegally, I would be thrown in jail. Canada has much stricter laws than we do, yet no one complains. Other countries will put to death those who come into their country illegally. Think about that before complaining about America.

Also, our country is going through a bad recession if not depression. Our unemployment in real terms is near 17-18%, close to Great Depression levels. The jobs we lost will probably never come back. Many of our citizens have lost jobs and probably will never get another one. Illegal aliens don't just work in the fields, they work in construction and office jobs also, jobs Americans can and should be doing. Illegal aliens also get access to free healthcare and education. In light of Obamacare, an illegal alien will get free healthcare while Grandma is sent home to die. Seniors who are American citizens will get denied healthcare which is an outrage. We are being told that healthcare is a right (except for seniors).

Finally, it disturbs me that some people from your country think they have an entitlement to come and live in America. No one regardless of race or people group does. To be an American citizen (unless born here) is a privilege. This is true of any country. The entitlement mentality that exists even among those who live in America needs to stop. This country is going broke and we can't afford it anymore.

[epdc]

Guys, I`m not fighting, seriously, I`pm just talking about a topic I think is important, and I wanna hear your thoughts as americans, thats all.

Shell, I did answer your question, I believe all countries should do the same, why they dont do it?, I`m very romantic if you will but I believe all countries should help each other, reality is not like that, but I believe there should be ways in any country to enter and have a decent job if you cant find one in your homeland.

Really Corolla? why dont you go and preach that to the father who needs to feed his children and can`t get a job here in Mexico, wonder if he would listen to you.

I`m not saying that crossing illegaly is correct, it`s not, but I totally understand the frustration that leads people to do that. Do you think we all wanna be americans? no, if you would ask each illegal person if they would go back home if they could get a good job in mexico they would say a thousand times yes. We dont have a sense of entitlement ok? these are desperate people who want a good job to help their families, if they could choose they would stay in their homelands ok.

Oh, so before when the USA wasnt going through a depression it was ok for illegal to do the jobs americans wont do but now that there`s a depression you just wanna kick them out so now you americans can take the jobs.

As I sais before, illegal cant pay taxes or social security because if they show up and say they are illegal and wanna get legal to be able to do that, migration will just take them to the boarder without even a chance to pick up their stuff.

I`m really sorry to hear helathcare wont be for seniors, I think is unfair

I know the USA is not the only country that has these kind of laws, countries like Spain and Italy are pretty strict too. I know that. But today I point my finger at the USA because of this Arizona law. I`m sorry guys to upset you, is just that...It amazes me that instead of changing the lwas or making new laws to make this illegal legal so they can pay taxes and healthcare, every new law regarding immigration is all about "kick them out", "dont help them", "we`ll put you in jail if you help an illegal", there`s never a law that says "we will start a process to see which illegals fill all the requirements to stay"....

I know is not fair people pass illegally, but what do you want me to say? is people desperate to survive, so sorry, but I understand this people.

And I will keeep complaining about America since is my neighbor and the illegal ones are many of my country so sorry if that upsets you. If I would see people from my country in Russia being treated like that I would complain about Russia.

[corolla1]

epdc,

I don't want to leave the impression that I don't understand the plight of your people. I do understand. The thing is this country is going broke. We have a huge national debt caused by both political parties and at the rate we are going we will go bankrupt. We are borrowing from China just to pay the bills. When this nation goes bankrupt and the economy of this country collapses, we will be no better off than your people are. The middle class will be eliminated leaving a few being filthy rich while the rest of the country will be in third world poverty. Sadly, Americans are going to be in for a rude awakening. This nation can no longer be looked at as the savior of the world. This ship called America is sinking and sinking fast. Most people in this country don't understand the dire straits we are in. Again, I understand your people's plight, but we are about to join you.

[executioner]

first off I haven't read any of the above posts as of yet(except Elo's first) because I dont want to sound patial to anyone. My local church works closely with churches in Mexico to grant legalize status to students and family members.

1. Both Governments immigration status' are really messed up. The first thing a Mexican that is trying to enter the U.S. legally needs to do is get status from the U.S. and get all their paperwork process through the U.S. Embassy; This starts at $300 and can go up to $3500 just to get legalized to enter the U.S. This just depends on what and how long they want to stay in the U.S.
2. Once the above process is payed for and the person recieves their paperwork from the U.S. they have to notify the Mexican government to get one more piece of paperwork to cross the border; This is where the process gets really screwed up. The Mexican Government will ask for more money, sometimes valuable posessions like cars, Tv's, and other valuables. This process changes on a daily basis without notice; It just depends who you are personally dealing with on that day. It next to impossible for someone that is lower income to get any kind of legal status to come to the U.S.
3. Even if there is an illegal here in the U.S. they can get set up to pay taxes through the IRS with an ITIN#. This number looks just like a SSN and is actually an official document produced by the U.S. Government.
4. The only way that an illegal can get healthcare at county or state hospitals is to get an ITIN#(they can get this process while waiting in the waiting room of a hospital).
5. Most resturants, landscaping companies, large retailers like Walmart, Target, Grocery Stores knowingly hire illegals because they now can be processed with an ITIN# and will be paying taxes. There is a HUGE Myth out there that illegals do not pay taxes, but if you see one that has a job like from above then they are legally paxes their taxes to the IRS.

This will conclude on the next post.

[executioner]

6. About 65% of the illegals here in the U.S. has an ITIN# and pays dearly each year in income taxes(they actually pay at a higher rate then we do). This # grows about 3%-5% each year and has grown every year since it was started in 1999.

7. You have to realize by them coming into this country illegaly they are only commiting a misdemeaner that as today actually only carries a fine of up to $250, and they cannot be deported(unless they have commited a felony) on their first attempt to come into the county illegaly.
8. Even if a fraction of the illegals in this country are deported it will destroy the U.S. economy. They are so inbedded in the economy that we would not be able to handle the mass exodus. If you think the economy is bad now in Arizona and California now just wait and see if this law is allowed and see what happens. Costs for everyday items will go through the roof.

On a personal and Christianity level I think its time to have more compassion on the plight of these people. I think its time to look at it on a personal level and not worry about what the politicans think or what affect it will have on your bank account

[shawnpfan2010]

The question I have is this, If I entered your country illegally what would happen to me if I got caught??

Your own President admitted on a national news show that If they caught someone entering illegally that person would be put in jail and deported back to their country. So why is it Ok for your goverment to send people back but not ours?? Watch the link, go to the 4 min mark and listen close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOn8RZZ5wuA

[CatNamedManny]

Executioner said most of what I wanted to say. There has been a lot of flame-baiting on this topic from both sides, but it's worth remembering the following:

America may be built on immigrants, but it has a sorry history of dealing with them. Italians, Irish, Germans, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Africans, Mexicans -- they all have been discriminated against, persecuted, enslaved or generally demonized by those who were already here. They were colonized, either through written or unwritten law, into ghettos. Quotas were put in place to keep too many of them from arriving here. When we fought their countries overseas, we threw them into internment camps.

So there's a decided fear of the "other" in this country's history. Call it what you will, but racism has long played a prominent and ugly role in America's dealing with immigrants. I'm not sure we should be so quick to dismiss it just because we're in the 21st century, instead of the 19th or 20th.

I'd further add that illegal immigration has declined significantly as the result of the economy, so to the extent illegal immigration was a problem in, say, 2007, it is far less of one now, contrary to the overheated rhetoric coming from the far right.

Likewise, crime rates along the border with Mexico are very low and continue to decline. There is no evidence to corroborate the fear-mongering that has taken place on this topic. Mexico's awful war on drugs has not crossed the border. El Paso, which is across the Rio Grande from Ciudad Juarez and all its horrific violence, remains one of the safest cities of its size in the entire country.

As Exe mentions, illegal immigrants are a sizable portion of the economy. By and large, they pay payroll taxes, which fund the Social Security of much wealthier American citizens. Deporting them is unthinkable. The cost to do so would be outrageous; the price paid by our economy would be unthinkable.

Meanwhile, the solutions proposed by the right on this topic are asinine at best, immoral at worst. "Secure the border!" when the border is more secure than its ever been, when crime is the lowest its ever been, when more illegal immigrants are leaving the country than entering it. Its a position completely divorced from reality. "The federal government is ignoring the problem!" when the current administration has deported more illegal immigrants than the previous one, to the extent that a little girl asked the first lady if she was going to deport her parents.

It's time to be realistic about this. Comprehensive immigration reform is absolutely necessary, but only one side of this discussion seems interested in having a serious conversation. The other side would rather gin up votes by making up stories about decapitated bodies in the desert, then arguing more should be done to "secure the border" before any kind of a path to citizenship is put in place, which is a completely unmeasurable standard. Will the border ever be secure enough, absent a 10-foot-tall lethally electrified fence running from Brownsville to San Diego?

Compassion is the one thing that seems to be lacking in this debate, at least on the side that speaks loudest. Illegal immigrants, by and large, are people looking to better the lives of their families, and they're willing to risk their lives traveling through Central America and Mexico to do so. They are hard working, deeply committed to their families, and exactly the type of people we should want populating the American workforce. I am flabbergasted by how cruel and callous those who demagogue this issue have been, and continue to be.

[executioner]

Executioner said most of what I wanted to say. There has been a lot of flame-baiting on this topic from both sides, but it's worth remembering the following:

America may be built on immigrants, but it has a sorry history of dealing with them. Italians, Irish, Germans, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Africans, Mexicans -- they all have been discriminated against, persecuted, enslaved or generally demonized by those who were already here. They were colonized, either through written or unwritten law, into ghettos. Quotas were put in place to keep too many of them from arriving here. When we fought their countries overseas, we threw them into internment camps.

So there's a decided fear of the "other" in this country's history. Call it what you will, but racism has long played a prominent and ugly role in America's dealing with immigrants. I'm not sure we should be so quick to dismiss it just because we're in the 21st century, instead of the 19th or 20th.

I'd further add that illegal immigration has declined significantly as the result of the economy, so to the extent illegal immigration was a problem in, say, 2007, it is far less of one now, contrary to the overheated rhetoric coming from the far right.

Likewise, crime rates along the border with Mexico are very low and continue to decline. There is no evidence to corroborate the fear-mongering that has taken place on this topic. Mexico's awful war on drugs has not crossed the border. El Paso, which is across the Rio Grande from Ciudad Juarez and all its horrific violence, remains one of the safest cities of its size in the entire country.

As Exe mentions, illegal immigrants are a sizable portion of the economy. By and large, they pay payroll taxes, which fund the Social Security of much wealthier American citizens. Deporting them is unthinkable. The cost to do so would be outrageous; the price paid by our economy would be unthinkable.

Meanwhile, the solutions proposed by the right on this topic are asinine at best, immoral at worst. "Secure the border!" when the border is more secure than its ever been, when crime is the lowest its ever been, when more illegal immigrants are leaving the country than entering it. Its a position completely divorced from reality. "The federal government is ignoring the problem!" when the current administration has deported more illegal immigrants than the previous one, to the extent that a little girl asked the first lady if she was going to deport her parents.

It's time to be realistic about this. Comprehensive immigration reform is absolutely necessary, but only one side of this discussion seems interested in having a serious conversation. The other side would rather gin up votes by making up stories about decapitated bodies in the desert, then arguing more should be done to "secure the border" before any kind of a path to citizenship is put in place, which is a completely unmeasurable standard. Will the border ever be secure enough, absent a 10-foot-tall lethally electrified fence running from Brownsville to San Diego?

Compassion is the one thing that seems to be lacking in this debate, at least on the side that speaks loudest. Illegal immigrants, by and large, are people looking to better the lives of their families, and they're willing to risk their lives traveling through Central America and Mexico to do so. They are hard working, deeply committed to their families, and exactly the type of people we should want populating the American workforce. I am flabbergasted by how cruel and callous those who demagogue this issue have been, and continue to be.

I agree with almost everything you are saying, but I do feel we need to secure the boarders even more then what they are now. To me it sounds like the Arizona law makers want the ones that are there already there to leave, and the people that are preaching and trying to push this movement even further don't realize the castrophe event this would cause in the state of Arizona; They think their broke now what til this happens.
Some fast food chains have already been quoted as saying the costs they incur from instead of paying someone with an ITIN# $8.25 per hr and now having to pay the going rate of $11-$14 per hr for someone with a SSN. The costs will be passed along to the consumer; so instead of your value costing $4.99 you should expect $2-$3 increase. This will be the case in any retail store. The store that will most likely be affected by this the most would be Walmart.

[Shell]

Okay, I don't dispute the idea that immigrants have been treated poorly through the years. I understand the concept of fear of the other. However, that is a very sad problem that has existed since long before the U.S. existed. The U.S. certainly didn't come up with the problem of fear of the other. Discrimination, bigotry and enslavement in some form has been a problem with every culture since the beginning of time. A big reason many immigrants came here was because they were treated poorly and had rough times in their own countries. Some of the immigrants who started their own businesses did well later, even if they struggled initially, and they did contribute a great deal to our culture. I do agree with the idea that immigration certainly isn't the only or even the main reason our economy is the way it is now, and it is unfair for immigrants to be scapegoats.

So, back to the question, how to simplify things? More spending isn't the answer; as has been pointed out, if things keep up, the U.S. won't be able to support anyone.

[CatNamedManny]

I wanted to respond specifically to these points made by Corolla:

Also, our country is going through a bad recession if not depression. Our unemployment in real terms is near 17-18%, close to Great Depression levels. The jobs we lost will probably never come back. Many of our citizens have lost jobs and probably will never get another one. Illegal aliens don't just work in the fields, they work in construction and office jobs also, jobs Americans can and should be doing.

Studies show beyond a shadow of a doubt that the first people to be laid off during a recession are illegal immigrants, which probably explains why there are fewer of them in the U.S. now than there have been in years.

Illegal aliens also get access to free healthcare and education.

The children of illegal immigrants born in America are not, in fact, "illegal aliens" and are constitutionally granted the right to receive the same educational benefits as any other American citizen. This is one of the things that makes America such an effective melting pot. They can receive health care the same way everyone else without health insurance in this country can: by going to the emergency room. I seriously hope your policy position is not for schools and hospitals to deny service based on their ability to prove their birth in this country (I know you're having a heart attack, but if you could show me your green card or Social Security card first...)

In light of Obamacare, an illegal alien will get free healthcare while Grandma is sent home to die. Seniors who are American citizens will get denied healthcare which is an outrage. We are being told that healthcare is a right (except for seniors).

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Illegal immigrants are specifically prohibited from receiving health care under the exchanges set up by the recently passed health reform bill. There are no "death panels" or any other such rationing elements in the bill either. It's the use of scare tactics like these that proves when one side of the political argument has failed utterly to come up with serious suggestions for making America better.

So, back to the question, how to simplify things? More spending isn't the answer; as has been pointed out, if things keep up, the U.S. won't be able to support anyone.

I don't understand the question. More spending? Simplify things by passing comprehensive immigration reform that does three things:

1. Invests in technology to better secure the large swaths of the border that are unpatrolled and manpower to better patrol the parts of the border that can be easily patrolled.
2. Makes it easier and cheaper for residents of other countries to come here and earn citizenship while working to support their families back home.
3. Provides a way for illegal immigrants already here to be registered and stay here while they take steps toward citizenship in a specified period of time.

This is similar to what the Bush administration proposed. It's similar to what the Obama administration proposed. In both cases, the bills were torpedoed by the far right and its paranoia, fear-mongering and anti-"amnesty" obsession. It's not about spending. It's about doing what's right and fulfilling America's promise to be a haven for the world's downtrodden.