I`m sad

[epdc]

is that Canada has started many programms here in M�xico for people who would like to move over there I`m glad to see there are more options now

[LexingtonPethead]

This is simply exploitation. Want it to end? Punish the employer. Heavy fines, long jail terms, etc. People would think twice about it. You can't justify it by saying it's complicated, we don't have the resources, they're here because they choose to be. ETC. It's wrong. It's taking advantage of them. It's just short of kidnapping and slave labour.

But doesn't America have a history of explotation and slave labour? This is just another example of history, as they say, repeating.

If America was really that compationate (see the happy children in iraq thread) ...they would care for the poor and put an end to this explotation. The American dream is every man for himself and to step on as many people as necessary to get to the top. It's all about me and I care nothing for you. Thank you Wal-Mart.

Look, RJ - if they are here illegally, they ought not have rights of US citizenship. If they want to go through the process and become US citizens, then they should have all the rights any other US citizen has. Otherwise we are rewarding illegal behavior.

If would-be illegal immigrants know ahead of time what the conditions are - that you call exploitation - and choose to come illegally in spite of it, then they are doing so at their own peril. Whose fault is that?

Likewise, if they choose to stay here and work knowing full well what the ramifications are - again, whose fault is that?

I do agree that companies who hire illegal immigrants should be heavily fined or serve jail time. That should be enforced every single time. If we drop the ball on that, then that is our fault.

But like kidnapping or child labor? Dude, you are so over the top it's laughable. That kind of statement is pathetic. No one forced anyone from Mexico to come here illegally, and no one is forcing them to stay. In fact, they are now more likely to leave on their own under the new law.

You are way out of line with your put-downs of the US. People from around the world want to live in the US - even if they have to do so illegally. The only people who seem to want to move to Canada are draft-dodgers and liberal wacko Hollywood types.

[LexingtonPethead]

David: I know you don`t mean to offend anyone we are just discussing things that won`t lead us anywhere hehehehe.


so USA doesn`t have any resources?????? so that makes me think that ilegal mexicans who live there don`t give ANYTHING to the USA economy when they actually do!!!!! if all ilegal mexicans were out of USA in a second the whole economy would fall considerely, so I believe that at least they deserve is a good health insurance, public services.

they don`t try to get legal because if government sees them they will kick them out. Is a complicated issue ya know.

some people here (in the south) live extremely bad here, I`m not justifying their action of going over there but I understand it, is my government fault for not doing things better.

The law is encouraging them to go back to M�xico? and what about the families that are already set over there? is not that easy to just pack things and go back and start over here believe me.
I believe that if your government REALLY wants to be fair it wouldn`t give any job to anyone (of course, I understand that`s a complicated thing to do), but by letting them work in prolly bad conditions and don`t give them any health care that`s soooo "slavery", that`s taking advantage.

Those are some very good points, Elo. I agree it is complicated. Not everyone here does.

What I meant by a lack of resources is a lack of human resources. We're doing the best we can just to hunt and track down terrorists.

But you're right, there are many factors.

[Shell]

I was sort of curious, have you ever actually been to the United States Matthew?

[epdc]

you are wrong, not only wackos want to move to canada. wanna know why latins don`t go over there? because even if they wanted to they still have to pass through USA so the easiest thing is to stay in USA, if canada were where USA is everyone would go to canada. is a location issue.

[LexingtonPethead]

you are wrong, not only wackos want to move to canada. wanna know why latins don`t go over there? because even if they wanted to they still have to pass through USA so the easiest thing is to stay in USA, if canada were where USA is everyone would go to canada. is a location issue.

Oh, so then the US could accuse Canada of slavery, huh!!

[BigD]

Don't understand where this discussion of Canada is going, as our immigration service is rather lax as well...I'm going to stick to my discussion with Lexington-I'm enjoying this, I hope you are.

It's not that I don't understand what you are saying. I do understand. The problem is that there will always be a certain number of Mexicans who will continue to cross the border looking for jobs, and there will always be employers who will illegally hire them - regardless of the law, or whatever rights they may or may not have. It's as simple as that.

No argument here - the day anyone has perfect immigration controls is the day I grow purple wings and fly out into space.

I think that the current laws are being placed in the wrong party, however - no matter what you do, illegal immigrants will keep coming under the current system, regardless of what penalties you put on them because they'll be able to find willing employers. I would suggest - as it has been suggested already - that stricter penalties be put on the companies that hire illegal immigrants, obviously the penalties that are already in place aren't strict enough.

I still think if they're in the US illegally, they shouldn't be allowed to be there at all, not blackmailed because they are there illegally. Peace .

[Jerry]

Could it be that the Mexicans are part of a covert operation to get a large part of their country back that was taken from them???

[epdc]

David:- LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who knows? maybe, hahahahahahahahaha


Jerry.- of course!!!!!!! you just discovered our plan uh???

ya know guys, USA has conquered M�xico with their bussiness and television and music. M�xico has conquered USA with their people hehehehehehehe, ya know, I read somewhere that one day spanish will be the second official language like english (ya know, like canada where people speak french and english)

some people even are gonna lose their jobs if they don`t know spanish as a second language can`t wait for that day MUAHAHAHAHAHA

[Shell]

It is a definite plus, almost necessary really, to understand Spanish when you live in L.A., and it's not all that difficult to learn when you live in this area. I grew up speaking "spanglish." And I have a Spanish speaking sis-in-law to practice with so I have no excuse not to work on my Spanish.

[Jerry]

Jerry.- of course!!!!!!! you just discovered our plan uh???

can`t wait for that day MUAHAHAHAHAHA

We are amassing a horde of snowbacks and as soon as the river freezes over we will launch our attack. We will push through from the north while you come from the south. Where shall we meet to celebrate our victory? Kentucky? We'll be the ones wearing the toques. MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Enosh]

Ok you pulled me into it now...

Let me get this straight. I'm not guarenteed health care when I take a low paying job. In fact I've low paying jobs and had to go to the hospital and then had to pay the bill myself. But, my taxes are supposed to pay for someone coming from Mexico to have health care in a job that they shouldn't even have?

I understand that people have it bad in Mexico, but like was already said, Mexicans then need to go through the proper channels to come to this country. I know I know, the US government is all to blame for everyone's problems. That's part of the problem right there. All these other countries want to point a finger at the good ole USofA, but when it comes down to going home or staying here in poverty, they would rather stay here. Why is that do you suppose?

I'v been to Canada, used to spend quite a bit of time over there and I tell you this. It's cleaner in some of the parts I've been, (Except Toronto) and you might have health care, but It's always been good to come home.

The government isn't to blame for everyones problems. I'm hearing echoes that sound like the need for bigger government, which I might add is an idea pushed by liberals in this country. HMMMM?

The government can make laws all day, but if some farmer in California hires a bunch of illegals to work, that is his improper judgement. zThey shouldn't be here illegally. Period. But they will keep coming even if they know there is no health care or edjucation. And If they come that's on them. Sure they don't want to turn themselves in once their here. Why would they? Freedom and a better life come with a price. Unfortunately, everyone can't just come here and we can all just prosper and be happy. If you want to come the US. you have to go through the proper channels.

I agree with both LEX and BigD. 1. They shouldn't be here period. 2. New laws that make it harder for the illegal people to be here will help keep some from coming here that way. It all takes something that no one seems to want to give for anything nowadays...time.

It's gonna take time in Iraq. I don't care where you're from, it would be foolish to think that the US can solve everybody else's problems just lickety split without time. Look how messed up Iraq has been for so long!! Give Bush a break for goodness sake! I think the world likes to hold the US to an impossible standard so they can point fingers later when they did nothing themselves to help. It's real easy in that seat isn't it? "No, we don't have any suggestions about the war. Just don't do it. I mean Saddam Hussain will go away one day. We know that he was killing his own people by the thousands and they lived in fear, but the US is the evil ones cause they knocked over some buildings in trying to bring the killers to justice!" It must be the OIL!!! That's right, oil! The US just wants their hands on that oil. The US is a bunch of liars that only care about themselves! They should give illegal aliens free healthcare those dirty low life American government types! Can we please stop wasting time with all this AMERICAN GOVERNMENT BASHING!!! That's what it is. You might not like it, but for over 200 years, it's worked for us!

Oh yeah, FOX NEWS ROCKS!!!! Although it is funny to turn on another network just to shake your head and say, "How do these people actually convince themselves that the crap coming out their mouth is the truth?"

Last Daze the final Haze. There was strong delusion to believe a lie. In the Last Daze before the Blaze. They Couldn't see beyond their misty trance to gather truth and have a fighting chance in the last daze.

Sound familiar?

[Jerry]

Ok you pulled me into it now...

Let me get this straight. I'm not guarenteed health care when I take a low paying job. In fact I've low paying jobs and had to go to the hospital and then had to pay the bill myself. But, my taxes are supposed to pay for someone coming from Mexico to have health care in a job that they shouldn't even have?

I understand that people have it bad in Mexico, but like was already said, Mexicans then need to go through the proper channels to come to this country. I know I know, the US government is all to blame for everyone's problems. That's part of the problem right there. All these other countries want to point a finger at the good ole USofA, but when it comes down to going home or staying here in poverty, they would rather stay here. Why is that do you suppose?

I'v been to Canada, used to spend quite a bit of time over there and I tell you this. It's cleaner in some of the parts I've been, (Except Toronto) and you might have health care, but It's always been good to come home.

The government isn't to blame for everyones problems. I'm hearing echoes that sound like the need for bigger government, which I might add is an idea pushed by liberals in this country. HMMMM?

The government can make laws all day, but if some farmer in California hires a bunch of illegals to work, that is his improper judgement. zThey shouldn't be here illegally. Period. But they will keep coming even if they know there is no health care or edjucation. And If they come that's on them. Sure they don't want to turn themselves in once their here. Why would they? Freedom and a better life come with a price. Unfortunately, everyone can't just come here and we can all just prosper and be happy. If you want to come the US. you have to go through the proper channels.

I agree with both LEX and BigD. 1. They shouldn't be here period. 2. New laws that make it harder for the illegal people to be here will help keep some from coming here that way. It all takes something that no one seems to want to give for anything nowadays...time.

It's gonna take time in Iraq. I don't care where you're from, it would be foolish to think that the US can solve everybody else's problems just lickety split without time. Look how messed up Iraq has been for so long!! Give Bush a break for goodness sake! I think the world likes to hold the US to an impossible standard so they can point fingers later when they did nothing themselves to help. It's real easy in that seat isn't it? "No, we don't have any suggestions about the war. Just don't do it. I mean Saddam Hussain will go away one day. We know that he was killing his own people by the thousands and they lived in fear, but the US is the evil ones cause they knocked over some buildings in trying to bring the killers to justice!" It must be the OIL!!! That's right, oil! The US just wants their hands on that oil. The US is a bunch of liars that only care about themselves! They should give illegal aliens free healthcare those dirty low life American government types! Can we please stop wasting time with all this AMERICAN GOVERNMENT BASHING!!! That's what it is. You might not like it, but for over 200 years, it's worked for us!

Oh yeah, FOX NEWS ROCKS!!!! Although it is funny to turn on another network just to shake your head and say, "How do these people actually convince themselves that the crap coming out their mouth is the truth?"

Last Daze the final Haze. There was strong delusion to believe a lie. In the Last Daze before the Blaze. They Couldn't see beyond their misty trance to gather truth and have a fighting chance in the last daze.

Sound familiar?

Your government got half your country by wiping out the Red man and taking his land and the other half from going to War with Mexico and taking their land. Yeah it's worked for you. Bet you don't see that on Fox.

[Shell]

That was a good post, Enosh. And I was just wondering if you'd ever been here Matthew.

Your comment wasn't really relevant to what Enosh said, Jerry. The point was they're here illegally and it's their decision. All that taking land stuff has been going on since the beginning of time. Greece and Rome took over everything at one point. The Norsemen and different Germanic tribes took over England. England, Spain, France and Portugal all tried to take each other over in the 1700s. The Chosen People took over the Promised Land in Biblical times.

[LexingtonPethead]

Your government got half your country by wiping out the Red man and taking his land and the other half from going to War with Mexico and taking their land. Yeah it's worked for you. Bet you don't see that on Fox.

You know, who really cares? Mexicans have their land (more than they can inhabit), and the indians have reservations and have adapted very well to civilization over the years.

Your point was______?